@wolf480pl @patterfloof I got a work laptop with 64 GB of RAM such that I can run VS Code, Slack, Obsidian, Spotify and Zotero (all Electron apps which ship their own copy of Chromium engine).
I am kind of happy that RAM got expensive again such that programmers might actually start to value it again …
My job is in LLM Inference, and there we actually look into performance as it is a business interest to have that run efficient on the servers. I guess when it runs on customers's computers, the motivation is less clear.
I was just compiling two copies of the business application I'm working on (policy management in insurance), in two IDE instances. It sent my 64 GB of RAM machine into thrashing.
😱 😱 😱 😱 😱 😱 😱 😱 😱 😱 😱
NO, I was NOT running Outlook nor browsers nor much of anything else at the time!
Me and my 1320 partners are asking your permission to put a cookie in your browser to grant you the privilege to display 5KB of our precious ai generated content on our 85MB web page.
the best part is all of this tracking results in useless data that fails to actually target any better than just guessing demographics that would enjoy the given content that the ads gets loaded around (y'know how ads were targeted back in the broadcast TV/Radio days)
Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.
Adblocking is both a matter of resistance and personal internet hygiene. There is no right to surveillance capitalism, you can ban who you dislike. Period. Doctor recommended (OK, a Ph.D., but you can take my word for it).
A thorough multilayer approach is recommended to poop in the AdTech teapot: 1) Network-wide DNS filtering w/ Pi-hole, explicitly banning all Google, Microsoft, Amazon, and other notorious enshittification actors. 2) Linux OS instead of Microsoft/Apple. Linux does not track, the others do. 3) Firefox w/privacy extensions uBlock Origin and EFF Privacy Badger, Ungoogled Chromium. 4) On Smartphones: Use AdGuard Pro (iOS) or Rethink DNS (Android), but be aware that tracking is a built-in feature of mobile OS and is more difficult to suppress.
For a while before I had to pay bills using online services I had a "pure" CLI setup, running barebones distros without X installed. Was pretty cool, had a command line application for just about anything. Even wrote a novel using a text-based word processor called wordgrinder.
It was surprising how much you could still see of the web using elinks, I could even use facebook 😂 Unsurprisingly banking was out of the picture though, I had to borrow my mom's windows laptop to do that.
@GeePawHill Recently spoke with an old friend and he was like "I miss the days when I knew exactly why the activity led on my hard drive or floppy was flickering." I agree. =)
I hated that the guy in the electronics shop thought he had to explain usb stick sizes to me because I was a clueless old lady, not because my first computer had 16K of RAM and a cassette tape. 128 gig of storage the size of a car key blows my mind.
just starting Firefox on a Ubuntu machine with 4GB RAM mostly ends up with a crash. I remember times when I cherished the Firebird browser on my thumbstick and used it on whatever computer I was sitting on.
@alesroubicek if you're interested, I set up xububtu on an old netbook with 1GB of ram, and found Firefox can still be really fast, but their current defaults blow chunks. Some of it is telemetry (and now AI), some of it is dumb choices. If you mess around with the settings it can easily be as fast as you remember.
remember, exTENDed memory TENDs to be useful, while exPanded memory is Practically useless.
Back in those days I regularly had to talk sewerage workers through editing CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT to get the data from their gas safety monitors to upload. There was only one editor guaranteed to be installed on their computers, edlin -- which could be a challenge.
Funny enough, unlike a few of our directors, not one of them had any problems following the instructions over the phone.
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yeah... I think if I had to pinpoint a defining moment for my vocation as a professional computer toucher, teenage me successfully getting Wing Commander 3 to run would probably be it! (Damn you, Mitsumi CD-ROM drive!!)
I can sadly confirm that figure. A docker container with a scraper worker that starts internally a browser and does the whole Chaptcha bullshit comes at about 1.5-2.0GB depending on the website, so a fully interactive website with some history on memory at 2.0gb sounds reasonable with Chrome.
And it doesn't sound too bad my router has 64GB nowadays.
But then I remember my first computer had 64KB RAM (and wasn't that huge) and a super fast 1Mhz 8 bit CPU.
I wrote code for a Honeywell Bull DPS, which had a maximum binary size of 32KB. We had to write the code modularly, so we could swap out binaries in order to make bigger apps.
After that for an IBM S/36 which had 256KB of RAM, followed by an IBM 4341 which was absolute luxury, which no direct limits anymore.
GNU Emacs used to be 8Mb in core. This was 50 years ago and was considered HUGE. Now, it occupies less than 50Mb and is considerably more functional. Progress is not measured in footprint.
I think the recent RAM shortage will delay the shift from 16GB to 32GB as the new most common memory capacity of a personal computer for a few more years.
I mean these days people use web apps for everything and you rarely install actual desktop apps. 2GB for those would be fine, so it "feels right" that web apps need more memory too.
That makes me wonder if browsers can compress/dedup web frameworks from their memory like the OS does with DLLs. I assume not which would explain the memory thirst.
As a developer, technician level. My developments aren't being audited nor by a CS engineer nor by some automated metrics on performance and execution performance.
Did you know that CSS is Turing-complete?
Someone has taken it to the next level: A full 8086 DOS emulator, in pure #CSS
https://css-dos.ahmedamer.co.uk/
"An 8086 CPU, chipset, 640 KB RAM, floppy, keyboard and VGA screen in one .css file.
I recently saw a video from an ex MS developer who recreated notepad in under 2.5 KB (I think) and I don't want to know what the current size of it is.
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My New Hobby: Opening random "partner" options on these boxes, finding their privacy policy, and noting whether it: a) 404s, or b) is "Our Legitimate Interest is that we want to track you". Both of which are (untestedly) illegal.
never fear. Now that AI has set a new precedent by forcing RAM prices to double every 6 months, soon the era of needing to optimize for minimal memory use will return!
I used to have 256 MB of RAM in the 64 MB era and it was luxurious. Now I have 16 GB in my personal laptop and I sometimes consider upgrading to 32 GB to fit all the browser tabs in there …
To be fair - optimizing config.sys and autoexec.bat wasn‘t so much fun back in the days either. It was more a pain in the a** when your favourite game just wouldn‘t run. @bijram
It felt easy most of the time. If a program needed 640K, I could skip most of the startup. For protected mode, I could skip everything, just load the mouse driver, and it ran well.
It became harder with later computers, simply because the Bios was starting to become larger, but by then Dos was starting to be replaced.
thinking about a recent(?) Blink conference address about "what do we do about the memory crisis", and the guy's response to any thought of "use less RAM maybe" was basically:
RAM uses the same power whether it's full or not
therefore, fill it with useful stuff
with the unspoken assumption of course that Chrome doesn't coexist with other useful stuff, that it's normal and good actually for a single application to use RAM at its leisure.
He gave some pushback to pressuring internal teams to make Chrome evacuate memory once it's finished with it. Someone in the audience asked about making a bigger deal in Chrome's web-dev ecosystem webpages about encouraging more efficient memory use, but the speaker seemed very ho-hum about that idea. There was no mention of "encourage less Javascript maybe" or the like.
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Richtig eingesetzt, ermöglicht es moderne Technologie, enorm Zeit zu sparen und macht so unser Leben besser. . Modern technology is designed to improve our lives and help save time.
Bella serata ieri al Circolo Gagarin di Busto, con @Alessandro e @alephoto85 . @Kenobit ha presentato il suo libro "Assalto alle piattaforme" e poi ci ha sparato svariati dB di energia 8bit dritti nel cervello. C'è stata anche una improvvisata dimostrazione di come la magia viene creata.
Alla fine siamo rimasti a nerdeggiare fino a tardi. Che ogni tanto ci vuole.
Rub is "A scriptable scratchpad for developers." Rub is like Boop-GTK, which is a port of Boop. Rub is written in #vala #Gtk4 #libadwaita. Rub should be compatible with scripts for Boop. Rub comes with core scripts from Boop. Rub description is also stolen from Boop. Sorry.
I'm trying to write a thing in #vala with #javascriptcoregtk to run some user-defined scripts. I want to create an object which 'proxies' data from the app.
I'm trying to use Context.register_class to register a class with some properties, and then create an instance via JSC.Value.object, but I can't manage to get the object I want.
// test.vala
// valac -o test --pkg javascriptcoregtk-6.0 test.vala && G_MESSAGES_DEBUG=all ./test
static void main() {
var vm = new JSC.VirtualMachine ();
var ctx = new JSC.Context.with_virtual_machine (vm);
var test_cls = ctx.register_class ("Test", null, null, null);
var test = new JSC.Value.object (ctx, null, test_cls);
info ("test is %s? %s", test_cls.name, test.object_is_instance_of (test_cls.name) ? "true": "false");
}
I get test is Test? false. What I understand from the docs is I should get a new instance of the class "Test".
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Little project I've been working on for the past two days. A reverse engineered implementation of the Android Auto server, running on my OnePlus 6 with PostmarketOS. The implementation is incredibly basic, only has basic video, but it's enough to display Sway and firefox :D
Next major step is getting it to work on a "proper" headunit. It works with my generic Chinese portable Android Auto / CarPlay screen but on a proper Toyota headunit inside a 2019 Toyota Aygo it fails somewhere along the way on the authentication chain.
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An amazing original 1909 colour photograph of hot air balloons at the inaugural Paris Air Show. It was taken by Léon Gimpel, using the 'Autochrome Lumière' process, the first commercial process for colour photography.
(I'd like tell them about, but I need to register to comment and there are no other contacts except ex and facebuck, so here I am yelling at the Cloud)
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Wolf480pl
in reply to muesli • • •patter
in reply to Wolf480pl • • •Wolf480pl
in reply to patter • • •websites should be paying us for loading them in our browser! /hj
@fribbledom
Martin Ueding
in reply to Wolf480pl • • •@wolf480pl @patterfloof
I got a work laptop with 64 GB of RAM such that I can run VS Code, Slack, Obsidian, Spotify and Zotero (all Electron apps which ship their own copy of Chromium engine).
I am kind of happy that RAM got expensive again such that programmers might actually start to value it again …
DelegateVoid
in reply to Martin Ueding • • •@martin_ueding @wolf480pl @patterfloof
Sorry 🤭 :
muesli
in reply to DelegateVoid • • •@delegatevoid @martin_ueding @wolf480pl @patterfloof
That 8GB swap cracks me up for some reason.
DelegateVoid
in reply to muesli • • •@martin_ueding @wolf480pl @patterfloof
Yeah, no idea why it does that....
Could probably manually disable it.
Martin Ueding
in reply to DelegateVoid • • •That's a lot of unused RAM.
Wolf480pl
in reply to Martin Ueding • • •@martin_ueding @patterfloof
you do realize this can be read as a "fuck you, got mine"? :P
I would appreciate if programmers and product managers started caring more about resource usage.
I'd also appreciate a job where I get to spend a significant portion of my time optimizing code.
But I'm not seeing any of these happen yet, and I'm not holding my breath.
Martin Ueding
in reply to Wolf480pl • • •@wolf480pl @patterfloof
I didn't intend that meaning but I see what you mean.
My job is in LLM Inference, and there we actually look into performance as it is a business interest to have that run efficient on the servers. I guess when it runs on customers's computers, the motivation is less clear.
Jeff Grigg
in reply to Martin Ueding • • •@martin_ueding @wolf480pl @patterfloof
@fribbledom
I was just compiling two copies of the business application I'm working on (policy management in insurance), in two IDE instances. It sent my 64 GB of RAM machine into thrashing.
😱 😱 😱 😱 😱 😱 😱 😱 😱 😱 😱
NO, I was NOT running Outlook nor browsers nor much of anything else at the time!
And this is Java, not C/C++!
💢
Lord
in reply to muesli • • •Fabio
in reply to Lord • •Goose of Dubious Value
in reply to Fabio • • •Fabio likes this.
YurkshireLad
in reply to Lord • • •KasTas
in reply to Lord • • •Danilo
in reply to muesli • • •Fabio likes this.
Lot⁴⁹
in reply to muesli • • •@fribbledom
Marcos Dione reshared this.
Jens Finkhäuser
in reply to Lot⁴⁹ • • •trainguyrom
in reply to muesli • • •Eggs now in different baskets.
in reply to muesli • • •Apparently you can get help for that kind of sock fetish.
If you feel the need for help, that is.
Otherwise just keep enjoying yourself.
You can confuse the analytics companies by looking at other foot related apparel.
Or even branch out into gloves and mittens every now and again.
Joanna Holman
in reply to muesli • • •C1S0
in reply to muesli • • •mtnrbq65
in reply to C1S0 • • •himem.sys
mark
in reply to muesli • • •hub8889
in reply to mark • • •@ATLeagle
why do you need two kernels ? One is enough, IMHO
@fribbledom
pela0
in reply to muesli • • •Beach-n-Brew
in reply to muesli • • •Brian M Knoblock 🇺🇸🇳🇴 🦊
in reply to muesli • • •In the future, everyone will be judged by the material used for the socks they wear.
Roadskater, Ph.D.
in reply to Brian M Knoblock 🇺🇸🇳🇴 🦊 • • •Sea Cow
in reply to muesli • • •- YouTube
DLinter (YouTube)katch wreck
in reply to muesli • • •caneToad
in reply to muesli • • •Adblocking is both a matter of resistance and personal internet hygiene. There is no right to surveillance capitalism, you can ban who you dislike. Period. Doctor recommended (OK, a Ph.D., but you can take my word for it).
A thorough multilayer approach is recommended to poop in the AdTech teapot:
1) Network-wide DNS filtering w/ Pi-hole, explicitly banning all Google, Microsoft, Amazon, and other notorious enshittification actors.
2) Linux OS instead of Microsoft/Apple. Linux does not track, the others do.
3) Firefox w/privacy extensions uBlock Origin and EFF Privacy Badger, Ungoogled Chromium.
4) On Smartphones: Use AdGuard Pro (iOS) or Rethink DNS (Android), but be aware that tracking is a built-in feature of mobile OS and is more difficult to suppress.
Owl Eyes Hoo
in reply to muesli • • •isol
in reply to muesli • • •an actual bus
in reply to muesli • • •For a while before I had to pay bills using online services I had a "pure" CLI setup, running barebones distros without X installed. Was pretty cool, had a command line application for just about anything. Even wrote a novel using a text-based word processor called wordgrinder.
It was surprising how much you could still see of the web using elinks, I could even use facebook 😂 Unsurprisingly banking was out of the picture though, I had to borrow my mom's windows laptop to do that.
mittyoz
in reply to muesli • • •bitterseeds
in reply to muesli • • •GeePawHill
in reply to muesli • • •dwardoric
in reply to GeePawHill • • •I agree. =)
🇺🇦 haxadecimal 🚫👑
in reply to muesli • • •martin lentink 🇪🇺 🇺🇦📎
in reply to 🇺🇦 haxadecimal 🚫👑 • • •Artemysia
in reply to muesli • • •clonedhuman
in reply to Artemysia • • •Aleš Roubíček
in reply to muesli • • •Sharp Leaves
in reply to Aleš Roubíček • • •@alesroubicek if you're interested, I set up xububtu on an old netbook with 1GB of ram, and found Firefox can still be really fast, but their current defaults blow chunks. Some of it is telemetry (and now AI), some of it is dumb choices. If you mess around with the settings it can easily be as fast as you remember.
I think from memory this is the guide I used:
linuxreviews.org/HOWTO_Make_Mo…
Apologies for dropping in with unasked-for advice.
HOWTO Make Mozilla Firefox Blazing Fast On Linux
LinuxReviewsgloriouscow
in reply to muesli • • •Karl Heinz Häsliprinz
in reply to gloriouscow • • •@gloriouscow obviously, Lockheed Martin Pride Socks.
Joe
in reply to muesli • • •relevant
Brahvim
in reply to muesli • • •deepfryed
in reply to muesli • • •Kevin
in reply to deepfryed • • •Scott Murray
in reply to muesli • • •viharm
in reply to muesli • • •Anthony Brian Mallgren
in reply to muesli • • •Cy
in reply to muesli • • •Abram Kedge🏴🇨🇦
in reply to muesli • • •remember, exTENDed memory TENDs to be useful, while exPanded memory is Practically useless.
Back in those days I regularly had to talk sewerage workers through editing CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT to get the data from their gas safety monitors to upload. There was only one editor guaranteed to be installed on their computers, edlin -- which could be a challenge.
Funny enough, unlike a few of our directors, not one of them had any problems following the instructions over the phone.
Frederic Thevenet
in reply to muesli • • •yeah... I think if I had to pinpoint a defining moment for my vocation as a professional computer toucher, teenage me successfully getting Wing Commander 3 to run would probably be it! (Damn you, Mitsumi CD-ROM drive!!)
Artur Wawrowski
in reply to muesli • • •Dr. Lämmerbein
in reply to muesli • • •joël
in reply to muesli • • •Andreas K
in reply to muesli • • •I can sadly confirm that figure. A docker container with a scraper worker that starts internally a browser and does the whole Chaptcha bullshit comes at about 1.5-2.0GB depending on the website, so a fully interactive website with some history on memory at 2.0gb sounds reasonable with Chrome.
And it doesn't sound too bad my router has 64GB nowadays.
But then I remember my first computer had 64KB RAM (and wasn't that huge) and a super fast 1Mhz 8 bit CPU.
Book End
in reply to muesli • • •Ben 🏳️⚧️🍉
in reply to muesli • • •SunDancer
in reply to muesli • • •"do I really need the CD driver? can I go without for game X?"
Gods what time that was.
Gillinger
in reply to muesli • • •Files=40 Yes!
GuacamOlé 🥑
in reply to muesli • • •NomadicRobot
in reply to muesli • • •Adam Jacobs 🇺🇦
in reply to muesli • • •640 KB? Luxury!
When I were a lad, I used to have to write x=10 rather than x = 10 so that I could fit everything into 16 KB.
BoloMKXXVIII
in reply to muesli • • •ohir
in reply to muesli • • •> fit everything into 640 KB
There were times before computers got that unimaginble huge amounts of RAM (640kB).
Then we (I am a greybeard) were forced to code our silicon chess players into the 1kB, GUI included:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1K_ZX_Ch…
1K ZX Chess - Wikipedia
Contributors to Wikimedia projects (Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.)muesli
in reply to muesli • • •I've written about programming languages, compilers, open source, distributed systems...
The Fediverse's response:
"Tell us more about CONFIG.SYS and sock surveillance!"
Love it! 🤣
David Cantrell 🏏
in reply to muesli • • •DerPumu (he/him)
in reply to muesli • • •Phil Stevens
in reply to muesli • • •David Cantrell 🏏
in reply to muesli • • •WanWizard 🏴 🇳🇱
in reply to muesli • • •I wrote code for a Honeywell Bull DPS, which had a maximum binary size of 32KB. We had to write the code modularly, so we could swap out binaries in order to make bigger apps.
After that for an IBM S/36 which had 256KB of RAM, followed by an IBM 4341 which was absolute luxury, which no direct limits anymore.
Michal Jan
in reply to muesli • • •ruurd@mastodon.social
in reply to muesli • • •nowadays available DOS memory fits into your browser tab. Progress they call that.
Oh and stop giving me scary memories. I can remember effing around with QEMM and HIMEM.SYS and whatnot. Brrr.
Joost
in reply to muesli • • •Brie Mmm
in reply to Joost • • •Kevan
in reply to muesli • • •Pi-hole – Network-wide Ad Blocking
Dan Schaper (Pi-hole)muesli
in reply to muesli • • •The funniest thing about that post is that nobody even questioned the 2 GB browser tab.
Somewhere along the way we all just accepted that as perfectly normal.
Wolf480pl
in reply to muesli • • •muesli
in reply to Wolf480pl • • •@wolf480pl
Give it two more years 🙈
Wolf480pl
in reply to muesli • • •Alex
in reply to muesli • • •muesli
in reply to Alex • • •@lx
Got it. We replaced "Next -> Next -> Finish" with "Add to Cart" for another RAM kit.
muesli
in reply to muesli • • •@lx
Apple users: *hide*
Alex
in reply to muesli • • •Oscoder
in reply to muesli • • •My developments aren't being audited nor by a CS engineer nor by some automated metrics on performance and execution performance.
midzer
in reply to muesli • • •Living on 8GB RAM, having 4919MB available now.
(Ok, just some tools open and a browser instance with < 10 tabs)
Edit: My mastodon web client tab is using 130MB.
fedops 💙💛
in reply to muesli • • •the average phone has 4-6 GB of Ram.
2 GB for the one single application most people use on their PCs is not concerning to them.
Softwarewolf
in reply to muesli • • •Anthropy
in reply to muesli • • •Anthropy (@anthropy@mastodon.derg.nz)
Anthropy (Mastodon)Manc AvGeek - See new account
in reply to muesli • • •Chuck-o-roni
in reply to muesli • • •Pēteris Krišjānis
in reply to muesli • • •Shit.
Adam Williams
in reply to muesli • • •128Gb of RAM :
$229.99 as of 2025-02-16
$669.99 as of 2025-12-29
$869.99 as of 2026-02-18
$1,099.99 as of 2026-03-11
$1,199.99 as of 2026-05-21
Dual 1TB NVMs :
$104.99 as of 2025-03-26
$282.99 as of 2025-12-29
$299.00 as of 2026-03-21
$292.00 as of 2026-06-17
I bought at the right time! I had been hesitating on making the investment in rebuilding my home server . . .
Onyx
in reply to muesli • • •patter
in reply to muesli • • •D Ingram
in reply to muesli • • •And if you had some EMS or XMS the hours spent trying to LOADHIGH to make use of all that extravagance.
And to think people criticised the "bloat" of VBRUN300.DLL back in the day.
Seedy!
in reply to muesli • • •muesli
in reply to Seedy! • • •@seedy60
Only when barefoot.
Why Not Zoidberg? 🦑
in reply to muesli • • •Dr. Christopher Kunz
in reply to muesli • • •Were they Winsocks?
I‘ll see myself out.
Ainsley Lowbeer
in reply to Dr. Christopher Kunz • • •Don't Trumpet your ignorance on this platform.
💡𝚂𝗆𝖺𝗋𝗍𝗆𝖺𝗇 𝙰𝗉𝗉𝗌📱
in reply to muesli • • •@fribbledom
Nicholas/Aquarion
in reply to muesli • • •My New Hobby: Opening random "partner" options on these boxes, finding their privacy policy, and noting whether it:
a) 404s, or
b) is "Our Legitimate Interest is that we want to track you".
Both of which are (untestedly) illegal.
Nikolaus Bösch-Weiss
in reply to muesli • • •0ptimist
in reply to muesli • • •cchisholm
in reply to muesli • • •llewelly
in reply to muesli • • •Martin Ueding
in reply to muesli • • •rk: it’s hyphen-minus actually
in reply to muesli • • •hyperpac
in reply to muesli • • •raptor
in reply to muesli • • •Raymond
in reply to muesli • • •It felt easy most of the time. If a program needed 640K, I could skip most of the startup. For protected mode, I could skip everything, just load the mouse driver, and it ran well.
It became harder with later computers, simply because the Bios was starting to become larger, but by then Dos was starting to be replaced.
XohvotoC
in reply to muesli • • •The names of the files are the reason I like to listen to 'MASTER BOOT RECORD' 🤘🏻😀
masterbootrecord.bandcamp.com/…
C:\>CHKDSK /F, by MASTER BOOT RECORD
MASTER BOOT RECORDFritz Adalis
in reply to muesli • • •These kids today don't know what it's like getting 639k free base memory so your badly coded bbs will load.
TomAoki
in reply to Fritz Adalis • • •It was harder for Japanese users who need Japanese FEP (recently called IME).😅
Tobias Migge
in reply to muesli • • •Dan Morse
in reply to muesli • • •Quinn Norton
in reply to muesli • • •Geert Uytterhoeven
in reply to muesli • • •...
And it did include telemetry!
TelH90
in reply to muesli • • •Average
in reply to muesli • • •thinking about a recent(?) Blink conference address about "what do we do about the memory crisis", and the guy's response to any thought of "use less RAM maybe" was basically:
He gave some pushback to pressuring internal teams to make Chrome evacuate memory once it's finished with it. Someone in the audience asked about making a bigger deal in Chrome's web-dev ecosystem webpages about encouraging more efficient memory use, but the speaker seemed very ho-hum about that idea. There was no mention of "encourage less Javascript maybe" or the like.
Pilsnerd
in reply to muesli • • •Reid
in reply to muesli • • •