I have just read this sentence: "Usually I pick up Starbucks for my morning coffee because it's closer than my local coffee shop and I don't have to put on real clothes to drive through it..."

And I'm just. Staring into the distance in European. You DRIVE to get COFFEE before putting on your CLOTHES? You can't be bothered to put on clothes because you haven't had your morning coffee but you will DRIVE to a fully another location that isn't YOUR FUCKING HOUSE to get it??? You will operate. The machinery! On the roads, that you share with other people! To drive to a location?? When you could just make it at home??

I try not to judge but, dear reader, I am fucking judging 😶

in reply to Kurtis B. Krew

@phf @chrisod There's always at least one legitimate benefit or use case of any one thing, that is then badly used and taken advantage of by a 100 other entities...
Yes, being able to pick up your medications if sick with minimal interaction with other customers or staff: Good. Dozens of people idling in their cars in a queue because they can't be bothered to park and go inside instead? Bad. Being absolutely unable to pick up your medications because the drive-through is the only option in your vicinity? Very very bad!
in reply to ink and yarn

@emery I too can make coffee in the nude, however, i prefer to dress first lest I spill hot beverage upon parts of me not equipped to handle it

the implement of choice is one of Bialetti's finest, a birthday gift from an ex. sometime last century

flic.kr/p/2q7v2yv

But driving, merely to get coffee, inconceivable

in reply to ink and yarn

@emery That is the life. I've been thinking about getting a coffee maker with a timer, but wouldn't really have a place to put it, so I live with tolerable and exceptionally easy organic instant coffee. It's not the best taste, but it's alright. If I want to make actual coffee, there's always the French press, but it's annoying to clean so I usually don't...

Have you seen the ridiculous (in a good way) James Hoffman video about the bougie coffee maker marketed to do that exact same thing, but with a +200€ extra price tag for the bougieness? I love the video!

in reply to Sini Tuulia

I haven't seen that video - it sounds amusing!

Before I had a real coffeepot and/or a need for more than one cup of coffee at a time, I used a re-usable steeping thingie. It takes up next to no space and makes perfect single cups (once you figure out exactly how much coffee to put in and how long to let it steep for your taste). Bonus: it also works for tea.

It is this thing - primulaproducts.com/products/c…

in reply to ink and yarn

@emery Ah yes, a fine small sieve. 😄 I feel like a lot of marketing budget has gone onto making this slightly more convenient and slightly better result product sell for a lot more than, you know. A small steel sieve that you buy once, and if you don't let it rust, lasts for some 30 years!

The video, though: youtube.com/watch?v=UALN1ZoN6b…

in reply to Elena ``of Valhalla''

@valhalla @emery I think it's a problem more if there's tonnes of the stuff, like in cafes that produce large quantities every day, while in households it gets mixed in with everything else. The municipal composting facilities here tend to be pretty industrial and hardcore, so presumably they can handle a lot of things since this is the first time I've heard about coffee grounds being a problem!
in reply to ink and yarn

@emery It's a very special genre of good-natured but unwelcome reply! "Here's how I, a person who knows nothing about you or your situation, think you could do this thing better, based on my experience in my own situation" 😆 Like, sure. Sure, maybe, but please don't, I don't want to get into a three paragraph explanation of how and why things are the way they are here where I'm sitting!

@valhalla

in reply to Sini Tuulia

@emery (I usually don't talk *products*, mostly anti-consumption, but they can pry my aeropress from my cold dead fingers, because it's essentially a french press if it were ridiculously easy to clean. Takes 20 seconds: unscrew filter lid, rinse filter to reuse (optional, imo very recommended), depress plunger to pop grounds into compost, rinse plunger head, pull plunger from chamber, lay on drying rack. 3min from hot water to coffee & clean kitchen.

Brew is competition-grade.)

in reply to Sini Tuulia

Someone boosted this old Starbucks post that generally *checks notes* a lot of people agreed with and which angered like three people who got extremely defensive about it and made it my problem specifically.

And guess what, Starbucks is doing anti-union things again so I guess it's perennial! Fuck Starbucks, support unions, do not operate the machinery if you can't be bothered to dress up properly yet, coffee can be made at home!

reshared this

in reply to Sini Tuulia

I’ve been making pour over coffee with a cheap melita filter cone and filters - ever since I got attacked at a Tim Hortons by a non masker annoyed at my precautions during lockdown. I’ve saved so much money.
I found a coffee I like and am happy I made the switch. I had never made coffee before. I always bought it. It took a minute to find a way to make it so I liked it, but I got there! I was motivated.
in reply to Jo - pièce de résistance

@JoBlakely Finnish people consume ludicrous amounts of coffee per capita, might be most in Europe or something, and while having and serving coffee is the absolute most basic level of hospitality... There doesn't really exist the concept of a "coffee run" where you'd go somewhere to get it and come back. 😄 If you go for coffee, you're going into a cafe or cafeteria, to sit down and have it there!

If you're working you might go to the break room to get a cup and bring it back to your work station, but this is work obsessed or distressed student behaviour, not coffee drinking.

in reply to Sini Tuulia

@JoBlakely it does make you question the coffee culture of the place.

If I’m going out for coffee, it will be to sit down with a proper porcelain cup, taking my time and enjoying it. I may be alone or with someone else, and it is special.

If I’m out and harried, but need a boost, I buy one of these cups from a machine. I don’t consider it “real coffee” and don’t expect anything from it.

Starbucks stopped serving good coffee a long time ago. It is closer to Dunkin’

in reply to Gabriel N

@wtrmt @JoBlakely We do have coffee machines pretty much everywhere, and you can buy kiosk or convenience store coffee from pretty much anywhere... It'll be a tar-like substance being kept hot for hours on end next to the till, come in a paper cup and most likely be terrible, but won't cost a lot and it is what it is, a last resort if you're in a hurry, or something nice and hot when you're freezing into a block of ice on a bus stop.

But if there's a choice, you'll sit down in a nice cafe or outside the nice cafe.

in reply to Jo - pièce de résistance

@JoBlakely No table service here, either. 😄 Line up on the till, give them your order (or pour yourself from the carafes of coffee, hot water and tea they've already got there), wait a little bit and go sit down wherever you like for as long as you like. You'll get some evil eye if you sit longer than two hours, but that's fine if you don't feel like buying anything more. Same procedure in the most bougie of places with the finest speciality coffees and little decrepit roadside stops with one singular table and two rickety chairs and coffee probably older than the owner selling it.

I just have instant coffee if I'm too tired to have anything nicer, it takes multiple seconds to put into a mug, it cooling down is much more time than making it.

in reply to Sini Tuulia

ok I missed the top post and I'm judging too. My hubby was stuck working for them because of higher pay/better insurance than other similar jobs since I can't work and need the healthcare, and they just kept squeezing him harder and harder and harder. Luckily he's back at school now but Starbucks deserves all the hate it gets and more, go to local coffee shops instead AT THE VERY LEAST oh my god, what absolute nonsense. These are human beings they're chewing up with their breakfast.
in reply to Sini Tuulia

I always laugh to myself when I remember that Starbucks is barely hanging on over here (I think there's one location in Melbourne?) because we were so thoroughly spoiled by migrants from Italy, Greece, Turkey, Lebanon, and a few other places, that they just could not get away with serving their terrible attempts at coffee. McDonald's coffee was still better. (Australia also had a significant hand in the whole McCafe thing apparently.)

On the other hand, for years I refuse to own any form of coffee maker, because the last time I did that I ended up with a 6 cup a day habit within a week, and then had to go cold turkey when it broke. (Had my GP very worried too, I almost got referred to a cardiologist.) And I am in the unlucky cohort that gets extremely nasty headaches from caffeine withdrawal. Having to actually go somewhere to get coffee meant I usually wouldn't, or would limit my time and spending to just one, so I couldn't develop that level of caffeine habit again. (Nowadays my stomach objects quite severely to coffee in all forms, so I don't have to do that any more.)

So I can understand someone trying to limit their caffeine intake making a conscious decision to not have any way to make coffee at home... but usually someone who's doing that will flat-out say 'I have a problem so I create barriers to obtaining coffee on purpose and that way my problem can't get any worse'.

in reply to Sini Tuulia

Yes, This!!⬆️
All the excuses I hear are annoying as all get out.
"Coffee isn't available at home" That is a choice!
"It's too difficult to make coffee"
It takes no effort to boil water, spoon coffee into a French Press, go brush one's teeth, pour coffee.
That takes a lot less effort than getting into a vehicle, driving bleary-eyed several miles down a road while negotiating traffic.
And can we talk aobout the emissions and energy wasted just to purchase a cup of coffee?
As far as I'm concerned anyone who does this has a inflated sense of entitlement, does not care the tiniest bit about the environment, and noting your mention of lack of street clothing, it is laziness.
in reply to Semitones

@Semitones @Sini Tuulia OTOH, having night clothes, house day clothes and outdoor day clothes isn't just a matter of looking good, it's also good for the clothing (and the environment), because shorter uses with plenty of airing in between allows it to be washed less.

Nothing says that they can't be 3 different sets of flannel pajamas, as long as you can remember which one is which

in reply to Elena ``of Valhalla''

@valhalla @semitones I do indoor clothes and outdoor clothes because they're no longer indoor clothes after they've been outside and gotten Outside Particles on them... And since I'm indoors a lot more, I don't need to wash the outdoor clothes very much. 😄 But since I'm already putting on different clothes to leave the house, why not make them nice?

That said, absolutely no difference what you're wearing as long as you're not driving to Starbucks!

in reply to Sini Tuulia

@lucie_tronvert The US is generally more rural and I happen to live in an area where driving is required due to terrain (mountains.) However, that's primarily because there are few or _no_ public transportation options. Worse, since driving is required in rural areas and affordable housing doesn't really exist in urban areas, that means more car commuting & designing infrastructure for it, meaning urban areas are even worse! Except here, most commuting time is traffic, not distance!
in reply to Sini Tuulia

Am I the only one that isn't at all surprised at this? And this is only because I've been out there. I've seen these people. I've even worked with some of them.

It is exactly for this reason that I work from home, do all of my shopping online and generally only leave the house to walk the dogs.

If I have to leave the house for any other reason, I firstly check to see if I'm going to meet generally like minded people. If not, I'm not going.

I am in my bubble and I'm not coming out.

in reply to fuzzyface

@fuzzyface Well, I'm sure glad it's not a thing here. If a student is, let's say, too busy in the morning to properly have a nice cup of coffee or tea... They'll just drop by the school or university cafeteria or some automat in a hallway to get it when they're already there, and have done all the prerequisite steps. Pretty much any workplace in Finland will also have either vending machines or hot beverages available. Often they're also free.

I cannot fathom the idea of driving somewhere and then driving back home to finish getting ready, and only then (probably) drive where you actually need to be going. Absolutely unreasonable, that's so many more times the effort, not even counting the energy use in gas or electricity to move the car!
I like going outside, but it's simply so much effort compared to just staying in, too.

Unknown parent

glitchsoc - Collegamento all'originale

Sini Tuulia

@Ailbhe @renwillis They *could* be composted or recycled, but are not, because it would be expensive and fiddly and require much more work, and there's much more precious and time sensitive things to compost and recycle. It's just a marketing gimmick.

And I'd prefer they'd make some kind of basic cup of coffee at home, with some sweetener and blanching if they so please... And then pick up the fancy thing on their way to wherever they're actually going, instead of driving back and forth while half awake!

in reply to Sini Tuulia

@Thebratdragon In all seriousness, you _do not_ want to see how they operate motor vehicles even _after_ they've had their coffee. The amount of entitlement and utter disregard for their own safety, let alone others -- even those _in_ other motor vehicles, absolutely disregarding _any_ thought of motorcyclists, cyclists, pedestrians, etc. -- is just unfathomable. Then there's the contempt for everyone else that quickly boils over into road rage... regardless of fault!
in reply to Morgan Aldridge

@Thebratdragon Years ago, my rural state had to pay to air TV commercials to educate drivers how to navigate roundabouts because it was the only effective way. The number of roundabouts have increased because they reduce fatal collisions, but the number of drivers I see struggle _every day_ is obscene. I'm not talking little things like yielding/signalling, I'm talking driving the wrong way around the roundabout with all other oncoming traffic stopping & honking (seen this morning.)
in reply to Morgan Aldridge

Speaking of, nearby we have a mountain "notch" road which winds tightly through glacial boulders. It's beautiful and treacherous enough for cars, let alone the large pickup trucks everyone likes to drive, but it is literally impassable by large trucks. However, because everyone like to rely on GPS navigation, especially commercial trucks for the shortest/fastest route, they get stuck so often that we have added a fine ($3000 IIRC), tons of signage, including electric for 20+ miles!
Unknown parent

glitchsoc - Collegamento all'originale

Sini Tuulia

@zdl Yeah... I once watched a new urbanist (of the Strong Towns variety, who are usually pretty reasonable) try to explain to a disabled person who couldn't walk very well why everybody *else* not being in cars and being able to walk to places 15 minutes away would make their own disabled life easier. It simply did not connect to any sort of brain lobe beyond the fear lobe, and the worry that someone would take away their car. I suppose they just had no idea anything else was possible, because they'd never seen it anywhere! Kind of sad.
in reply to refraction

@elexia Maybe they were just really really bad at making coffee. But personally, I'd just make the bad coffee at home and get the nice coffee later, if I absolutely needed to for any reason.
I like making nice coffee myself, and a very specific dark roast and acidity. But I'll also just make instant coffee with a bunch of sugar if I can't be bothered to.
in reply to Ailbhe

@Ailbhe @renwillis There is a startling amount of people who don't even sort their trash! It all goes in the same bin. And then sometimes, the municipality puts it in the same big bin (landfill) even if you've sorted it at home, especially in the US where most of the budget goes into maintaining roads and parking lots or so I've been led to believe.
I wouldn't be surprised if the pods made in the US had something different in them as well, the regulations are terrifyingly lax sometimes.
Unknown parent

glitchsoc - Collegamento all'originale

Sini Tuulia

@mcv @guigsy @renwillis (I'm tagging you in, @econads )

Coffee growing is also a very carbon heavy venture, you have to do all kinds of things to it and it travels a very long way unless you live right next to where it grows and gets processed...
If your options are to buy a bag of coffee grounds, never use it and then toss it, a pod is probably better. They also last a fairly long time when still sealed, the pods? I'd say just get instant coffee, you can get it in a variety of containers and it keeps shelf stable for a good long while, and there's only that one bit of packing.
But yeah, I assume if you only drink smaller quantities and spaced out, it's better to have that at home versus drive somewhere to get it every fucking day. 😶

in reply to Sini Tuulia

This is very common. What stood out was that the instigator chose Starbucks because they didn't need to get fully dressed for work before their coffee. These companies have spent (Starbucks, Dunkin', Tim Hortons) years changing the culture of their customers. It will take a lot to change it back

For the record I live in a city in NA and prepare my own Americano coffee using an espresso machine. Enjoy it, then get dressed in work clothes and walk 2 km to work.

in reply to Gareth

@gareth I had a friend who lived smack dab in the city centre and had a coffee place on the ground level of the high rise they lived in. They'd just elevator downstairs and through two doors, barely dressed, if they wanted a pastry in addition to their coffee, but would *still* make coffee at home if they didn't want to get the pastry. It wasn't cheap, even though it was low effort!
in reply to Sini Tuulia

@mcv @renwillis @econads I go through a kg of beans in a couple of weeks... 😬 Better than pods though.

Buying local is important, but it's often over stated. Transit is normally only a small portion of the total carbon footprint of a product.

Here in the UK, we can buy locally grown strawberries. But they often have a higher carbon footprint than those from thousands of miles away, because to extend/protect the growing season, local grown often use heated greenhouses (polytunnels).

in reply to Martijn Vos

@mcv @renwillis @econads but choosing the closest country where they grow beans might not be the lowest footprint. Production methods normally have more effect than shipping.

I'd speculate that how green/dark the roast is probably has a higher energy impact than how far it travels across the ocean.

Or some countries might use far more water than others.

in reply to econads

@econads Oh yeah, it's probably the worst thing for the planet I habitually consume. I try not to throw any away and to only have as much as I need, and always buy organic. But at least I'm not driving to get to a place to get coffee, driving back home, and then driving to another place after getting dressed - every single day, apparently.

Planet murder is bad but if possible only do one planet murder, not three hundred of them a year!

in reply to Sini Tuulia

to be honest, my biggest problem is drive through coffee anyway. I mean... Why? In the UK at e.g. Solstice Park on A303, people line up their cars for drive through instead of parking and walking into the store.

I don't get it, where do you go after that to drink it? Surely not driving down the road at 70mph and trying to drink a scalding hot coffee at the same time!? But if you park up, why not just go into the store? Just seems massively lazy to me.

in reply to Sini Tuulia

@mcv @guigsy @renwillis @econads I own some Coffee machines. I don't use them anymore. I just put ground coffe in a cup an pore boiling water over it. Yes, there is coffeground in the cup and sometimes I get it in my mouth. But the taste is so much better than any of my fancy coffeemakers.
Use a French press or no machine at all. For the taste of your coffee. And yes, for the environment., too.
in reply to Monsterklatsch

@Monsterklatsch @Dave Mc @ren 🏳️‍🌈 (a they/them) @econads @Sini Tuulia

My wife has a coffee pot where you put ground coffee and water in, let it steep for a while, then push a plunger (or French press) down and pour. Same effect, but no grounds in your cup.

Questa voce è stata modificata (1 anno fa)
in reply to Sini Tuulia

The media in this post is not displayed to visitors. To view it, please go to the original post.

I don't drink coffee but I live in the US and want to offer some context. I am, by no means excusing any of this, but it's more than just the individual - it's systemic.
The clothes part is likely people in pajamas as it's become very acceptable in rural and some suburban areas for people to be in sleep wear and do grocery shopping. Maybe some masc being topless but most businesses have the right to not serve customers that aren't attired in a way they see fit.
(continued)
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in reply to Ami Moregore🧈🧈🧈

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Trying to not doxx a friend in rural Missouri so no addresses shown

Now for the big one: car culture. Our car industry has lobbied to make any number of laws to make it harder to have pedestrian friendly towns. But additionally it has resulted in people living further apart in rural areas.

I've only lived in cities, so I've had access to walkability but had no idea how the city I grew up in was honestly the least walkable. The nearest stores were mechanics... for cars (continued)

in reply to Ami Moregore🧈🧈🧈

Capitalism, the classic villain for 33% of America's sins, (the other 66% is split between racism and patriarchy) has dismantled a great deal of local stores and also made franchising locations even more common. I'm certain there's better research out there but one article I looked into holds that 78% of coffee shops in the US are corporate chain coffee shops
bestqualitycoffee.com/magazine…
This is more than a personal failing but a systemic stemming one from capitalism killing off local
Unknown parent

glitchsoc - Collegamento all'originale

Sini Tuulia

@adriano I am dependent on caffeine most of the time because I am unmedicated for my ADHD! I assume a lot of the other people are just chronically sleep deprived and trying to run on fumes in the horror of society today, adding a wisp or two more of the fumes with coffee... I tend to have chronic insomnia, but now that I don't need to wake up at a set time, I *could* be functional without caffeine. I'd be more scattered, but I've done it before. When I had to wake up for school/work, I had to have immense amounts of tea or coffee to exist around people and needed it to focus.

Please fucking let people sleep, sleep deprivation is horrible for everybody and results in so many accidents, dips in health and mistakes and crabbiness in general!

Unknown parent

glitchsoc - Collegamento all'originale

Sini Tuulia

@cykonot Oh, I don't have issue with the clothing. I have issue with operating heavy machinery first thing in the morning to frequent a horrible multinational corporation that does everything it can to oppress its workforce and cut costs (except for the CEO flying private jets to commute, of course) - potentially putting everyone else on the road, the side walks and even the parking lot at risk, while also burning up the planet because it's a distance away...
When the other option would have been to literally make One Singular Beverage at home and get the nice one later. Absolutely no fucking contest, and I invite you to read any comment on a Youtube Shorts about Starbucks and its union busting to read the most appalling entitled car-brain horsehit of the same vein from several hundred people!

The car culture is sick and making people sick, and the percentage of deadly traffic collisions in the US is absolutely out of proportion to the rest of the world. Grace and understanding, yes. But looking askance at someone putting lives at risk and burning gas for COFFEE? Also yes.

Unknown parent

glitchsoc - Collegamento all'originale

Sini Tuulia

@cykonot I refer to the number of traffic collisions, operating heavy machinery, the risk of doing so for very little reward, and the probably a dozen people appalled that someone would drive first thing in the morning in the replies to the first post, and I reiterate, for Starbucks coffee. I honestly don't know what I could say to you to make you not miss the point, though, so I'm going to stop trying.
Unknown parent

glitchsoc - Collegamento all'originale

Sini Tuulia

@chicob I am all with you for the "recyclable" but do have to kind of question the convenience - how can it possibly be more convenient to unlock a car, get into it, drive it somewhere, interact with a human, drive away, park and lock the car again... Instead of just making a singular cup of coffee? 😅 If it's that difficult, there's also all kinds of ready made beverages you could have in the fridge and either drink cold or heat up!
Unknown parent

glitchsoc - Collegamento all'originale

Sini Tuulia

@chicob I apologise for the language but for this nothing less will do: Motherfucking PARKING MINIMUMS. A certain size of business needs to have enough parking for their clientele, plus extra. It's an absolute scourge on US cities. Europe does have them too, but the amounts are much much smaller, and as I understand it, you can simply choose to not offer any parking?
in reply to Tyrone Slothrop

@slothrop @pthenq1 Honestly, even picking up the coffee on your way back from somewhere is worlds better than Starbucks person...

But yeah. Looking out to see a city centre just wreathed in trees, and seagulls drifting across fluffy white clouds and a clear blue sky with excellent air quality... Being European is pretty cool.

in reply to Sini Tuulia

How… how is a Starbucks they need to *drive* to “closer” than their “local” coffee shop?? Or is it just about hiding in the car because they’re not actually dressed, and they’re *driving* to a coffee shop they could get to on foot?? Also, yes to everything you say about just making coffee at home! I can understand picking it up on one’s way to work, but the no real clothes thing makes me think the person is headed back home afterwards, so buying coffee from a coffee shop in those circumstances is just absurd.
in reply to Sini Tuulia

@Sini Tuulia @kittyclimpo my “local” yarn shop is a 20 minutes drive (going through a few villages), because I don't have any proper yarn shop at a closer distance, but I do use quotes around the “local“ part and only go there once or twice a year.

(insert rant on people around here not knitting enough and not knitting the right things :D )

Kg. Madee Ⅱ. reshared this.

in reply to Sini Tuulia

I read yesterday that the new CEO of Starbucks lives in California and intends to commute to work in Seattle several times a week in his private jet ( theguardian.com/business/artic… ) . A picture is forming in my head of a culture of people who burn way too much fossil fuel in pursuit of the caffeinated kind.
Unknown parent

glitchsoc - Collegamento all'originale

Sini Tuulia

@paul_ipv6 It's not even very civilised everywhere! But even the jankiest little town with nothing but a singular petrol station and country roads will have a little table set in front of one dusty window with a manky old tablecloth, and you can get infinite refills of coffee for next to nothing, and probably a cinnamon roll for next to nothing also. The culture is just different, coffee is for sitting down, and it's expected that you'll want to sit down for it.
in reply to Sini Tuulia

*David Attenborough Voice*
'this is the soft shelled hyoomun, a member of the hyoomun family. Because of its soft, pudgy body it has grown reliant on using wheeled outer shells to move it around. Because of its weak body, it has to move across these tracks, that eventually get covered in asphalt it excretes. It cannot even forage for food without its outer casing, and it will do everything, even mating, on its asphalt tracks!
in reply to Sini Tuulia

@Ailbhe @renwillis Pods in the US mostly are made with polystyrene (type 6) and thus not terribly widely accepted for recycling, if your area even has recycling collection. The majority of the country lacks municipal composting as well.

But hark! Greenwashing solutions are on the way as Keurig has developed a compostable cup as of ... 2024. So sustainability, very consideration, such wow.

The inventor of the K-cup is on record saying he regrets doing so.

in reply to Sini Tuulia

"And I'd prefer they'd make some kind of basic cup of coffee at home, with some sweetener and blanching if they so please... And then pick up the fancy thing on their way to wherever they're actually going, instead of driving back and forth while half awake!"

On behalf of all Americans, I thank you for your clear insight into American life, what "coffee" means in American culture, and what "driving before putting clothes on means."

I'll inform the several hundred million residents of this country that we must all conform to your preference.

in reply to Sini Tuulia

This actually may be one of the safer and more considerate drivers here. We call it #roadrage cbs12.com/news/local/watch-man…
in reply to Adrianna Tan

@skinnylatte We now have locations of various chains (Starbucks, Chick-fil-A, McDonald's, probably more) which are *solely* drive-through. They do not have a customer entrance at all, only multiple drive-through lanes, and their few parking spaces are for employees and gig-economy delivery drivers. If you are brave enough to walk up to the building you might find a service window, or you may not.

Here's an example: 34.720347495919945, -86.5849308088013

in reply to Sini Tuulia

seems to suggest that the price of gas is still too low. Just pick up a cup on the way to work, assuming he/she (or other pronouns) goes to work. My mocha pot makes a great cup of coffee with beans that I freshly grind for each cup. No waste. Grinds go in the garden. Most recyclers don’t take coffee pods. Too much weight (grinds), too little plastic. And the grinds need to be separated and disposed. Too much work!
in reply to Sini Tuulia

anyone who finds making coffee a chore and wants to save time, just make cold brew! It was a revelation for me.

A cold brew pitcher costs less than $30US. Just dump in some coffee, pour water, and wait 12-24 hours. You have coffee for 1-4 days depending on how much coffee you want and cold brew tastes great!

@Ailbhe @renwillis

Questa voce è stata modificata (1 anno fa)
in reply to Sini Tuulia

@paul_ipv6 There's this taste in America for simultaneous consumption of a half-dozen luxuries. You don't JUST drink a sweetened creamed coffee drink, you do it while livestreaming or texting or watching video on your phone in your air-conditioned front seat in an oversized, generally house-down-payment-priced vehicle.

Even if you WANT to opt out of this, it's an uphill, conscious effort to avoid (else, pay exorbitantly to live alongside those who got a taste for sanity abroad.)

in reply to 🇺🇦PhotoSniperFox🇺🇦

@PhotoSniperFox I don't object to the attire, I object to operating a tonne of steel and vehicular manslaughter just to fetch something you can literally hold in one hand, presumably right after waking up. That you could make at home instead.

...Also, you do know that people in Europe also bathe, put on makeup, do their hair, and often wear yesterday's clothes? Right?

Unknown parent

glitchsoc - Collegamento all'originale

Sini Tuulia

@PhotoSniperFox Listen. This time it was literally choosing a Starbucks instead of any other non-Starbucks location, which you'd know if you read the second post in the thread, mentioning the original context.
But you're obviously very upset, so I (not a native English speaker but academically fluent in it) wish you all the best, that you some day get to experience what it's like to be normal about cars, and maybe have a nap.
in reply to Sini Tuulia

I worked at a Starbucks for a couple years and it was the saddest thing, I am fully the kind of person who sees "going to a coffee shop" as a thing that you do for an hour or two with your laptop for chill freelance work vibes, not... whatever this nonsense is. Get a brewer! I almost never go there now because there are better coffee shops to hang out at and I can make perfectly good coffee at home.
in reply to Trixter of the Moon Council

@trixter A bit of hot milk and sugar shown the shadow of espresso a decade ago, perhaps? 😄
Though I have kind of gathered that a lot of people also get one to four amounts of espresso in whatever usually only takes one, so who knows.
Over here, even if you get coffee in a rush... You sit down to have it! Even if it's just for ten minutes, you pause everything else and drink it, and then go on with whatever you're doing. The only exception is probably working on the computer in an office, but every office will also have a break room, cafeteria or similar - and a lot of the time when you're *really* working on the computer, you're either mainlining black coffee or have some kind of bottled energy drink anyway. 😆

Sitting down to pause is probably better for humans in many ways.

in reply to Sini Tuulia

It is! Even in the mornings, I make my coffee with a plain old drip brewer, then sit down and drink it while playing Animal Crossing for about half an hour. (I used to catch up on social media then, but Animal Crossing is much healthier. 😬) I was lucky enough to find a pretty good espresso machine at a thrift shop, and working at Starbucks gave me the skills to use it, so if I really need a caffeine boost more than a quiet moment, there's that.
in reply to njsg

@njsg @scott *Desperately trying to contain neurodivergent special interests, slightly failing*

I mean, rainwater and drainage engineering is *super* complex and fascinating, but among many issues there now the weather is just broken, but also umbrellas used to be a thing you simply had, so it wasn't that strange to think everyone would have one... But that's just the awnings and eaves and such. There's also how you're supposed to re-level an asphalt road like every five years or so, but this isn't done because there's simply so much of it! And of course because it's non-porous, all of that washed off water needs to flow somewhere, and because everything eventually leaks, it ends up places it doesn't belong...
And yes, every time someone suggests making things nicer for pedestrians, someone asks "But what about the cars?" or remarks that nobody walks anyway!

in reply to Sini Tuulia

This whole starbucks thing boggles my mind for a long period. First their plain coffee is crap. If you go there for syrups and creams with a small amount of coffee in, don't call this grabbing 'a coffee'. Put the kettle on at home, pour some hot water on a filter with coffee and you'll have a much better coffee. And if you go out for 'a coffee', get it in a real coffee shop which uses a proper espresso machine. 🙂
in reply to haerench

@haerench I'm told you can even purchase all of the syrups and "speciality" coffees from there at home! I figure a basic pour over on any old coffee filter with your preferred quantity of other things in would be worlds cheaper but also nicer and less carbon. And slightly less nice but less effort to just use a drip coffee maker and get more at the same time...
in reply to Ray Jepson

@mister914 Ah, no. 😆 Funnily enough did just watch a video essay about airport fashion, and how it went from people being nicely dressed to such casual wear that you'll sometimes buy a 200 dollar hoodie so you can be comfortable but still flaunt your money and status...

Build back the rail network, destroy the airports is what my heart says, even though my brain knows it's not that easy.

Unknown parent

glitchsoc - Collegamento all'originale

Sini Tuulia

Our trash that cannot be recycled (a lot of it does, we even have municipal plastic recycling in addition to all the classic flavours of recycling) goes into the incinerator that is used for district heating. Which is alright I guess. But because it's so efficient because it's new and well made (ratio of things burned to energy, and re-burning the fumes etc.) ...we also get the trash of OTHER CITIES carted to us. On trucks. To burn, instead of reused!
Ah. 🙃
Questa voce è stata modificata (1 anno fa)
Unknown parent

glitchsoc - Collegamento all'originale

Sini Tuulia

Over here, if you were in the middle of driving a long distance, you'd stop at a tiny local pub, a grill, petrol station or another cafe... And get more coffee while you're already there. And thus, the cycle continues. 😄
Questa voce è stata modificata (1 anno fa)
Unknown parent

mastodon - Collegamento all'originale

Fragarach

@mirabilos
I suppose it depends on the length of the journey, he says, being boring about it.
However, having visited Canada (okay, BC) myself, there are lots of woods and forests.
Perhaps, as well as the bears doing what they have to, Canadians pee in the woods?
For myself, I'll confess to occasionally having to stop at a pub and buy something, just to use the loo.
Unknown parent

glitchsoc - Collegamento all'originale

Sini Tuulia

@Ailbhe @WhippoorwillSong Like, in theory if the delivery person was also delivering 20 other things? This would be much better than twenty individual people all driving! I wish they'd get fairly paid for their work, too. Sometimes I've gotten food delivered as a treat and because I couldn't just make myself do it, and hella tip them every time.

I live in the city centre pretty much, so it's within cycling distance of any old place, so the deliveries get made on bikes or electric scooters, though!

Unknown parent

glitchsoc - Collegamento all'originale

Sini Tuulia

@Beedazzled @Ailbhe My building was built for the working class and at such a time that it was assumed everyone would eat lunch and dinner at a soup kitchen, work cafeteria or such, when there were literally probably ten within walking distance... You'd just eat bread, canned soup, cold foods and such at home. And they STILL put in a tiny kitchen! It's not very large or even medium by modern standards, but it's a full kitchen!
in reply to mirabilos

@mirabilos @Sini Tuulia @Ailbhe @ren 🏳️‍🌈 (a they/them) IIRC I've read somewhere that even some people who were working on developing plastic recycling techniques claimed that burning it for energy was the best way to deal with it, because plastic just doesn't recycle as nicely as other materials like metal or glass.

Probably not always true, but I can see it being true in some cases. And much better than the plastic being sold to some third world country “for recycling“ and ending up in a dump there.

And anyway, even if it ends up being burned, it's my understanding that having the plastic already sorted is still better, as this way it can go directly in the furnace without some of the steps that are required for other wetter or less suitable materials.

Mx Verda reshared this.

Unknown parent

glitchsoc - Collegamento all'originale

Sini Tuulia

@rlcw Ah, but she (the username did not indicate gender, so who knows what the pronoun is) could have just... Made coffee at home. 😆
Yeah, the car centric environment of most of US is an absolute trash fire. And like a trash fire, also inconveniently fuming all over everyone else even a great distance away!

Somebody else was imagining a drive through line of unshaven and undressed men driving with their eyes closed the whole way! Perhaps what was missing from that vision was the two tonne SUVs!

in reply to Elena ``of Valhalla''

@valhalla Already sorting when clean or rinsed is better if there's a possibility it gets reused, but in areas with water problems it would be better to just incinerate it for total use of energy... But humans have to handle the trash and organic matter slowly anaerobically rotting in the nooks and crannies of a whole bunch of mixed plastic is quite bad for your health. So, depends on multiple things, probably.
I put everything clean and easily rinsed in the recycling, but if I had to spend 10 minutes washing a bit of packaging, I'll just bin it. 🤷‍♀️
in reply to Sini Tuulia

I don't know what bougie ass does that. My car is barely running as it is, and I make my own coffee. We're not all stupid and spoiled. I've worked my busted disabled ass off for the little that I have. For every wakadoo American that does stupid things like that, there are 20 who can barely afford to survive and we hate these privileged morons too.
I am ashamed of these idiots, but they are a small, overly vocal, part of this country. The rest of us are to busy trying to survive.
in reply to Ian Langham

@Langhamian Yup. It's also highly likely they're quite young and haven't yet developed the Anti-Bullshit Lobe that allows them to see what a horrible advertising scam a huge portion of the US culture is. There's almost always entitlement before there is wisdom as humans grow up, I feel.
Anyway, I have multiple dear friends in the US, in similar situations to you, and I do genuinely feel bad for everyone *having* to live over there and not being able to enact change because systems are systems and capitalism is capitalism. But while systems and capitalism is hard to change, cultural shifts come from people, so maybe there's some hope!
in reply to Sini Tuulia

I hope that's true. I wish that the healthcare system worked here as well as over there. I wouldn't be this busted. I rode my bike every day for ten years. I taught myself to work in porcelain, stoneware, oils, watercolor, acrylics, and pastels. I clocked 180 miles a week and now I can't even ride, but I can't get a single doctor to repair the damage because I am poor and I have the 'hurry up and die' insurance plan.

Sorry for the rant, it's been a rough morning
Blessings
🤘❤️🤘

in reply to Ian Langham

@Langhamian You have my sincere empathies. I'd be unable to walk and probably also be dead if I didn't have municipal universal healthcare, so it really really is a good thing to have. There's a lot I still can't do (including actual work for multiple reasons, lol) but at least I can spend some amount of time researching, making and enjoying things, which is worlds better than the alternative. 😅

I hope your day improves, best of luck with any endeavour or at the very least getting some rest! 💚

in reply to Sini Tuulia

@cheetah_spottycat It doesn't sound too weird tbh, or at least not weirder than US folks driving anywhere else for food and beverage. I assume they mean going out in comfy PJs which doesn't seem unsafe or that unreasonable, tbh. I do the same when I don't have any breakfast at home and walk over to the store real quick to grab some bread and stuff. I am fully awake and aware in those moments, but also incredibly lazy. Guessing the same is true there.
Unknown parent

glitchsoc - Collegamento all'originale

Sini Tuulia

@fifilamoura @kallemp Recycling industry *for plastics*, because quite a lot of other things do actually recycle quite well! We really don't need virgin wood for cellulose, energy pellets, cardboard, toilet paper, etc... And a lot of metals, especially rare earth, are much less energy, effort and pollution to reuse.
It's just that the plastic recycling is mostly a scam, and often because it's too expensive to be profitable.

But yes. We just need to use less plastic, period.

Unknown parent

glitchsoc - Collegamento all'originale

Fifi Lamoura

@kallemp Yeah, we just need to get rid of most plastics. Reusing them doesn't get rid of the microplastics problem. The reality is that the recycling industry was always just an attempt to greenwash plastics by the petrochemical industry so we'd continue to buy and use plastics instead of finding better and more sustainable options.

@miah @zeborah @iju @sinituulia @Ailbhe @renwillis

Unknown parent

glitchsoc - Collegamento all'originale

Fifi Lamoura

@miah I'm not chastising you, just pointing out that with plastic there's no really good way to dispose of most of it that doesn't create downstream harm. We simply need to be using far less plastic, which can be difficult to do and is pretty much always about making lifestyle changes. And, of course, our problems are systemic ultimately so there's only so much we can do individually.

That said, we can all make some lifestyle adjustments to consume and pollute less and there are lots of people trying to solve the excess packaging problem (mainly outside of the massive corporations, of course). Bar shampoos, for instance. Or laundry soap strips or concentrates instead of big plastic bottles. Making your own soda using a refillable machine instead of buying bottles.

@zeborah @iju @sinituulia @Ailbhe @renwillis

Unknown parent

mastodon - Collegamento all'originale

Miah Johnson

@fifilamoura @zeborah @iju @Ailbhe @renwillis right. But at least im using it more than once and not simply trashing it. Or doing like the previous owners and just burying my trash. It's all about steps in the right direction and threre is little I can do about the problem here. If you'd like to come here and collect all this plastic from me and recycle it yourself let me know!
Questa voce è stata modificata (1 anno fa)
Unknown parent

mastodon - Collegamento all'originale

Miah Johnson

@zeborah @iju @Ailbhe @renwillis I've been trying to cut my Soda habit, which will cut down on our plastic. But everything else in the kitchen its harder.. So many condiments and such are plastic. I try to buy glass or cardboard container things as much as possible because those items are much more recyclable than anything plastic.

All the large plastic bottles I usually end up using in the garden / garage for various things. I've cut up and reused so much plastic.

Unknown parent

mastodon - Collegamento all'originale

Juho Mäntysalo

@miah @Ailbhe @renwillis

As hypothesis, pickup for recycling should be cheaper than pickup to landfill, as the company will sell the metals/paper/plastic/bio/whatever forward.

If the cost is the same or —godforbid— more, then they're lying somewhere and should be investigated.

So if you're interested, ask your mom the cost of pickup. It should answer some questions (and perhaps rise more).

in reply to Juho Mäntysalo

@iju If it's purely user-pays I'd expect the opposite: pretty sure I've read the only thing where recycling is *cheaper* than just mining/felling it from scratch is maybe aluminium.

For plastic, it's more expensive and the resulting plastic is lower quality so (apart from making some PR products) most plastic for "recycling" gets shipped to a third party who quietly dump it for you.

Anyway I still dutifully recycle but I try to reduce/reuse more too.

@miah @sinituulia @Ailbhe @renwillis

Unknown parent

mastodon - Collegamento all'originale

Becca 🌳🚀🛀

@kallemp @miah @zeborah @iju @Ailbhe @renwillis Switching to renewable energy, driving electric cars, reducing meat in the diet, or even living in a city where you don't need your own car will increase your quality of life and probably also it's duration. So please stop spreading nonsense, and do take some responsibility. The goal us net zero, not net -15%.
in reply to Miah Johnson

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@miah @zeborah @iju @Ailbhe @renwillis Glass needs to be reused very often to have a better footprint than plastic. Non recyclable plastic also does not need to end up in a landfill. It can also be burned providing district heating.
You don't have to use plastic of course, but just pointing out, that the effect is not as sustainable as people assume. Just reading "not the end of the world", which contains this helpful chart on the effect if lifestyle changes.
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Unknown parent

glitchsoc - Collegamento all'originale

Sini Tuulia

@renwillis @rlcw @kallemp It's pretty simple, to me: Do what you can. If you can't move, never drive, buy only renewable energy, lobby, correct misinformation, reduce or remove meat consumption (like my friend who's allergic to every legume and most raw vegetables, but tries to buy less carbon & methane heavy meat!), reduce, reuse, skip utterly frivolous trips... Just do whatever you can, when you can. If you can't, don't.

The people capable of lobbying and changing policy are already doing it (and need your support via votes and signatures), trends can be affected by consumer behaviour (We've already started seeing "green" as a good thing versus something only dirty weird hippies want!) and whatever little you can personally do? At the very least it will help you sleep at night and not feel that guilty when the subject comes up, best case scenario it also helps make a difference.

Every little bit helps, and despair and inaction makes the assholes win.

in reply to Becca 🌳🚀🛀

@rlcw @kallemp @miah @zeborah @iju @Ailbhe wasn’t sure if this was a satire reply? How is it remotely feasible for most people to do this? Do I just expect everyone to uproot their lives and move to walkable cities, somehow also afford EV cars and, what, solar panels for their apartments? 40% of americans are financially insecure and this shit ain’t cheap.

The real answer is aggressive regulation of the impactful polluters. Corps, orgs, govs, & the rich.

Questa voce è stata modificata (1 anno fa)
Unknown parent

glitchsoc - Collegamento all'originale

Sini Tuulia

@renwillis And there's both malicious misinformation purposefully spread, misinformation people have picked up unknowingly, and misinformation that used to be the scientific consensus but has been partially or completely disproven. There's also a lot of culture that simply needs to change, it's not even about anyone being misinformed, just what people are used to.

Thank you for doing something that has the potential to be very effective! Corporations won't stop until they're deeply incentivised to do so, and regulations and penalties are the only things they tend to care about beyond profit.

in reply to Sini Tuulia

I knew our culture was bad here, but it was a very creepy eye opener when I was cycling in a neighbourhood near my home early-ish on a Saturday morning. This neighbourhood has no services in it, everything is a drive away. It's so hilly it's also kind of unpleasant to walk very far.

As I was riding, garage doors were opening nearly in unison and piles of people where heading out in their SUV/pickups. As I was riding back a short while later, it seemed pretty clear that most of them were doing a "Timmie's run" (Tim Horton's coffee(ish) shop) rather than make their own coffee, as many were pulling back in to their driveways. There were so many it really sent a chill up my spine - as I say, I knew our culture was bad, but I had no idea this neighbourhood basically disappeared for a short bit on a weekend morning like this. Creepy as all hell.

These are people who chose to live at the top of a hill with no services around so they could have a nice big house and yard. And they can't be bothered making coffee.

Taxes just aren't set properly.

in reply to Kinetix

@kinetix Oh god, that's like a scene from some absurdist horror movie! I can imagine the terrible neon pastel colour grading and a hauntingly stretched out rendition of some vintage poppy song in the background. 🙃

Yeah. I might have further thoughts after I've had my morning coffee, but am currently in the state prior to it, and therefore barely capable of accomplishing such simple tasks as remembering what I was doing a minute ago.
Taxation and regulation, absolutely. Gosh, a long time ago they may have even put a tramway to reach the top of the hill.

in reply to I AM BANKSY ☕ / 🗑‍🔥

@xinit I think someone in the thread somewhere commented that Americans are so used to their cars as extensions to themselves that they have no idea they're sitting down into several tonnes of murderous steel every time they drive, it's just like their living room. Which may be true but also sounds surreal!
in reply to Sini Tuulia

Car culture. Context may help.

I live in Southern California. The nearest coffee shop is a couple miles away. It's a Starbucks - but pretend it's not for a moment. Assume for a moment making coffee at home, which is the right solution, is out of play.

You wake up. Which is easier;
1) jump in the car in your pajamas, drive 5 minutes and someone hands you coffee in the drive thru, drive home and drink it in bed
2) get up, get dressed with pants and shoes and so on, walk 45 minutes, get coffee, and either drink it among strangers or let it get cold walking home?

We don't live in walkable cities for the most part - driving is the default context.

in reply to Tom Bortels

@tbortels Oh, I know. It's a horrible self-perpetuating shit-show. But you're forgetting about option 3, which seems anathema to American culture at large: SIMPLY DO NOT HAVE THE THING. You don't need to have all the things, having the thing isn't required for life if you can survive without the thing, you just want the thing and are used to always having the thing if you want it and everything around you telling you just wanting the thing is enough reason to have it.

You don't always get to have the thing if it's a net negative for everyone but you and that's fine! No coffee making at home? No coffee.
If you're going to work or school anyway, drop by some place to get it then if you still want it, you're already up and around.

Same with flying: "Oh I can't drive to the city I want to go and there's no trains..."
No. Simply do not go, you can go somewhere else closer by instead of burning the planet down and lining the pockets of world-burners. You going to a city you want to visit just because is not something you NEED, it's just something you want, and because you want it you'll twist yourself to a pretzel to justify it. Absolutely bonkers. 😆

juliette reshared this.

in reply to Sini Tuulia

@tbortels Certainly, but in this case, it is easy to have the thing with very little effort. I almost always make coffee at home. It is very easy. Back when I had to drive to work five days a week, my office supplied the coffee, which the company was happy to do because they think caffeine makes engineers and programmers more effective. When I was working from home I made my own.
in reply to Sini Tuulia

Addictions are a strong driver. And caffeine counts.

I don't drink coffee. The wife does. She doesn't operate well in polite society before coffee, and while she does have a coffee maker - sometimes you want something more.

But coffee is a red herring. *nothing is walkable here*. Especially in your late 50's. And things like groceries or the pharmacy or a doctor's visit are very non-negotiable.

Unknown parent

glitchsoc - Collegamento all'originale

Sini Tuulia

@bryan I have not and probably never will, it's a horrible company run by even more horrible people, exploiting an already strained service industry workforce just trying to survive, and doing its very best to be the last chain standing so it's also the only place to work... That's not even touching on the real estate shenanigans, tax evasion, CEO private jets or impact of single use packaging on the whole global trash and oil dependency situation.

We do also have more local chains here, and since they operate and are somewhat owned here, they actually have to follow workers' rights laws and pay tax, which is nice if I want to pay a lot more for a beverage when I'm out and about and can't make it at home. Or buy from the grocery store, if I really wanted to, there's a pretty big selection of coffee drinks there.

If you were making some kind of joke I didn't get, sorry, but that's an absolute nope from me, I don't care what it tastes like

in reply to Sini Tuulia

@catsalad I visited a friend in California and she invited me to her house for coffee, when we got there she immediately got us all in her car to drive to Starbucks to buy coffee then take it back to her house. It was weird.

And an American friend that visited England was annoyed there wasn't a local Starbucks open at 6am for her to get coffee.

Conclusion: Americans can't make coffee

Unknown parent

glitchsoc - Collegamento all'originale

Sini Tuulia

@yodaladywhooo When I was younger I spent several weeks (maybe months?) per summer at my mother's mother's farmhouse, which was indeed a cool 15 minutes drive from the village centre (a church, a graveyard, a cafe and a grocery store - really hopping!) and 30 minutes from the closest town... And nobody ever went to town for any silly nonsense, and certainly not every day. You'd make sure you had everything there in the house and make it there yourself, or picked up whatever was needed the next time you were already going.
in reply to Sini Tuulia

I recall a long thread on Usenet in nineties which started with an American asking if New Zealand had drive-through banking. This was a very confusing question for New Zealanders, because how often do you even need to visit a bank?

There was a great deal of mutual incomprehension as the New Zealanders explained what it was like to have pervasive EFT-POS and direct bank transfers, and the American explained how often they had to handle coins and paper cheques for everyday transactions.

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