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I have just read this sentence: "Usually I pick up Starbucks for my morning coffee because it's closer than my local coffee shop and I don't have to put on real clothes to drive through it..."

And I'm just. Staring into the distance in European. You DRIVE to get COFFEE before putting on your CLOTHES? You can't be bothered to put on clothes because you haven't had your morning coffee but you will DRIVE to a fully another location that isn't YOUR FUCKING HOUSE to get it??? You will operate. The machinery! On the roads, that you share with other people! To drive to a location?? When you could just make it at home??

I try not to judge but, dear reader, I am fucking judging 😶

in reply to Sini Tuulia

well that's rather terrifying.
The view that driving a car is easier than getting dressed is... Concerning 😅
in reply to Harry W.

@hazz223 I am deeply discombobulated by the whole thing! Concerning is putting it mildly!
in reply to Harry W.

@hazz223 Depressing as that may be, it's actually a pretty average "Amurican" attitude I think. Your car *is* part of your home after all. Yes, that's terrifying. But let me just throw "drive-thru pharmacy" into the mix as well? 🤷
in reply to Kurtis B. Krew

@phf @hazz223 Drive through pharmacy is better than stand in line inside coughing and sneezing germs on everybody else pharmacy.
in reply to COD

@chrisod @hazz223 I love how everybody tries really hard to read my "throw in the mix" as a thing that puts down drive-thru pharmacies. Whatever people, happy to help you unwind.
in reply to Kurtis B. Krew

@phf @chrisod There's always at least one legitimate benefit or use case of any one thing, that is then badly used and taken advantage of by a 100 other entities...
Yes, being able to pick up your medications if sick with minimal interaction with other customers or staff: Good. Dozens of people idling in their cars in a queue because they can't be bothered to park and go inside instead? Bad. Being absolutely unable to pick up your medications because the drive-through is the only option in your vicinity? Very very bad!
in reply to Sini Tuulia

And it was a comment on a post about Starbucks being terrible, their CEO being terrible, and them doing terrible union busting! And this... This is what someone chose to write as a JUSTIFICATION to get Starbucks even though they thought they probably shouldn't?

I am... Collapsing into a black hole. Just. Fuck.

in reply to Sini Tuulia

I have to assume it’s because by “coffee” they don’t mean drip or basic espresso drinks that you make at home, but one of Starbuck’s special “coffee”-adjacent drinks.

Home “brewing” has turned into this nasty environmental disaster that is Keurig cups. Barf.

in reply to ren 🏳️‍🌈 (a they/them)

@renwillis I had to Google those but they look like the coffee pods you can get in the UK -- often for Nespresso branded machines -- which are recyclable or compostable. Do I assume they use something grim to make them?
in reply to Ailbhe

@Ailbhe @renwillis They *could* be composted or recycled, but are not, because it would be expensive and fiddly and require much more work, and there's much more precious and time sensitive things to compost and recycle. It's just a marketing gimmick.

And I'd prefer they'd make some kind of basic cup of coffee at home, with some sweetener and blanching if they so please... And then pick up the fancy thing on their way to wherever they're actually going, instead of driving back and forth while half awake!

in reply to Ailbhe

@Ailbhe @renwillis There is a startling amount of people who don't even sort their trash! It all goes in the same bin. And then sometimes, the municipality puts it in the same big bin (landfill) even if you've sorted it at home, especially in the US where most of the budget goes into maintaining roads and parking lots or so I've been led to believe.
I wouldn't be surprised if the pods made in the US had something different in them as well, the regulations are terrifyingly lax sometimes.
in reply to Sini Tuulia

@Ailbhe @renwillis Pods in the US mostly are made with polystyrene (type 6) and thus not terribly widely accepted for recycling, if your area even has recycling collection. The majority of the country lacks municipal composting as well.

But hark! Greenwashing solutions are on the way as Keurig has developed a compostable cup as of ... 2024. So sustainability, very consideration, such wow.

The inventor of the K-cup is on record saying he regrets doing so.

in reply to Sini Tuulia

I did actually ask my city about where the sorted trash goes. Turns out we’re really good at paper, but some of the plastics has to go with the “rest” into the burner because it doesn’t burn well enough otherwise.

At least no landfill whenever possible. This creates local electricity and even heat for some households in quarters near them.

in reply to mirabilos

Our trash that cannot be recycled (a lot of it does, we even have municipal plastic recycling in addition to all the classic flavours of recycling) goes into the incinerator that is used for district heating. Which is alright I guess. But because it's so efficient because it's new and well made (ratio of things burned to energy, and re-burning the fumes etc.) ...we also get the trash of OTHER CITIES carted to us. On trucks. To burn, instead of reused!
Ah. 🙃
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in reply to mirabilos

@mirabilos @Sini Tuulia @Ailbhe @ren 🏳️‍🌈 (a they/them) IIRC I've read somewhere that even some people who were working on developing plastic recycling techniques claimed that burning it for energy was the best way to deal with it, because plastic just doesn't recycle as nicely as other materials like metal or glass.

Probably not always true, but I can see it being true in some cases. And much better than the plastic being sold to some third world country “for recycling“ and ending up in a dump there.

And anyway, even if it ends up being burned, it's my understanding that having the plastic already sorted is still better, as this way it can go directly in the furnace without some of the steps that are required for other wetter or less suitable materials.

Mx Verda reshared this.

in reply to Elena ``of Valhalla''

@valhalla Already sorting when clean or rinsed is better if there's a possibility it gets reused, but in areas with water problems it would be better to just incinerate it for total use of energy... But humans have to handle the trash and organic matter slowly anaerobically rotting in the nooks and crannies of a whole bunch of mixed plastic is quite bad for your health. So, depends on multiple things, probably.
I put everything clean and easily rinsed in the recycling, but if I had to spend 10 minutes washing a bit of packaging, I'll just bin it. 🤷‍♀️
in reply to Elena ``of Valhalla''

@valhalla @renwillis @mirabilos there's also the carbon capture/release equation -- plastics made from plants rather than fossil fuel type plastic is less of a net carbon disaster (even though it's often still not efficiently recyclable).
in reply to Sini Tuulia

@Ailbhe Yeah. Especially in the states. Barely anything is ever composted. At best, the cups are tossed in the recycling bin in the house in vain hopes that someone is recycling it down the line. Which they rarely are.
in reply to Sini Tuulia

@Ailbhe @renwillis also note that Keurig specifically tried to make coffee pods with RFID chips in them to force people to buy their extra-expensive pods, which would make them ewaste even if the rest of the pod was compostable
in reply to Sini Tuulia

Exactly.

"Recyclable" is not the same as "recycled". It's the last of the three Rs for a reason.

It's a future promise on sustainability that we can externalize somewhere else, for convenience.

Convenience is what makes people use drive-throughs.

@Ailbhe @renwillis

in reply to chico

@chicob I am all with you for the "recyclable" but do have to kind of question the convenience - how can it possibly be more convenient to unlock a car, get into it, drive it somewhere, interact with a human, drive away, park and lock the car again... Instead of just making a singular cup of coffee? 😅 If it's that difficult, there's also all kinds of ready made beverages you could have in the fridge and either drink cold or heat up!
in reply to Sini Tuulia

Absolutely. But it's a trap: small steps of convenience add up to complete nonsense.

After a certain point, people don't even see the contradiction.

in reply to chico

@chicob "Small steps of convenience add up to complete nonsense." ✨
I feel like that describes most of the current tech industry!
in reply to Sini Tuulia

"And I'd prefer they'd make some kind of basic cup of coffee at home, with some sweetener and blanching if they so please... And then pick up the fancy thing on their way to wherever they're actually going, instead of driving back and forth while half awake!"

On behalf of all Americans, I thank you for your clear insight into American life, what "coffee" means in American culture, and what "driving before putting clothes on means."

I'll inform the several hundred million residents of this country that we must all conform to your preference.

in reply to Sini Tuulia

(BTW, "before putting on clothes" is how American women say, "before spending 2 hours bathing and doing my hair and makeup, so I just go in my pajamas or what I wore yesterday." I can tell you couldn't possibly care less, but you're welcome anyway.)
in reply to PhotoSniperFox

@PhotoSniperFox I don't object to the attire, I object to operating a tonne of steel and vehicular manslaughter just to fetch something you can literally hold in one hand, presumably right after waking up. That you could make at home instead.

...Also, you do know that people in Europe also bathe, put on makeup, do their hair, and often wear yesterday's clothes? Right?

in reply to Sini Tuulia

But clearly you, as a Finn, have the good judgement to judge people a continent away that you've never met and you object to the DRIVING CARS.

I'll relay your orders, your Royal Majesty.

in reply to Sini Tuulia

anyone who finds making coffee a chore and wants to save time, just make cold brew! It was a revelation for me.

A cold brew pitcher costs less than $30US. Just dump in some coffee, pour water, and wait 12-24 hours. You have coffee for 1-4 days depending on how much coffee you want and cold brew tastes great!

@Ailbhe @renwillis

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in reply to Dave Mc

@Dave Mc @ren 🏳️‍🌈 (a they/them) @Sini Tuulia

It's not just driving a few miles, it's also still getting coffee there, presumably in a disposable cup. I think anything at home is better, even if it's capsule.

in reply to Martijn Vos

@mcv @guigsy @renwillis (I'm tagging you in, @econads )

Coffee growing is also a very carbon heavy venture, you have to do all kinds of things to it and it travels a very long way unless you live right next to where it grows and gets processed...
If your options are to buy a bag of coffee grounds, never use it and then toss it, a pod is probably better. They also last a fairly long time when still sealed, the pods? I'd say just get instant coffee, you can get it in a variety of containers and it keeps shelf stable for a good long while, and there's only that one bit of packing.
But yeah, I assume if you only drink smaller quantities and spaced out, it's better to have that at home versus drive somewhere to get it every fucking day. 😶

in reply to Sini Tuulia

@mcv @guigsy @econads Why did coffee get so complicated? A drip coffee maker is so fucking easy and yummy. An espresso maker uses even less disposable stuff.

Nothing wrong with a fancy coffee every now and then, but goodness. Scoop, drip, and sip go ahhhhhh! Yum!

Tech sees a very minor inconvenience, “fixes it” and makes an infinitely worse problem.

in reply to Sini Tuulia

@mcv @renwillis @econads I go through a kg of beans in a couple of weeks... 😬 Better than pods though.

Buying local is important, but it's often over stated. Transit is normally only a small portion of the total carbon footprint of a product.

Here in the UK, we can buy locally grown strawberries. But they often have a higher carbon footprint than those from thousands of miles away, because to extend/protect the growing season, local grown often use heated greenhouses (polytunnels).

in reply to Dave Mc

@Dave Mc @ren 🏳️‍🌈 (a they/them) @econads @Sini Tuulia

True, but that makes no difference for coffee at home vs Starbucks. There it really is the travel and packaging that makes the difference. And at home, you've got more control over where your coffee comes from.

in reply to Martijn Vos

@mcv @renwillis @econads but choosing the closest country where they grow beans might not be the lowest footprint. Production methods normally have more effect than shipping.

I'd speculate that how green/dark the roast is probably has a higher energy impact than how far it travels across the ocean.

Or some countries might use far more water than others.

in reply to Dave Mc

@guigsy @mcv @renwillis @econads Some countries are also more likely to quietly mow down rainforest despite any protections even if they're in place, to grow their beans! It's complicated.
in reply to Sini Tuulia

@mcv @guigsy @renwillis @econads I own some Coffee machines. I don't use them anymore. I just put ground coffe in a cup an pore boiling water over it. Yes, there is coffeground in the cup and sometimes I get it in my mouth. But the taste is so much better than any of my fancy coffeemakers.
Use a French press or no machine at all. For the taste of your coffee. And yes, for the environment., too.
in reply to Monsterklatsch

@Monsterklatsch @Dave Mc @ren 🏳️‍🌈 (a they/them) @econads @Sini Tuulia

My wife has a coffee pot where you put ground coffee and water in, let it steep for a while, then push a plunger (or French press) down and pour. Same effect, but no grounds in your cup.

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in reply to Sini Tuulia

Can I sit with you in the judgey chairs? Because I am judging, too.

I don't have to put on real clothes to get my coffee either, because my coffee comes from my kitchen. I bought a nice coffeemaker with a timer function. I set up the coffee in the evening, when I'm awake and functional... and when I get up in the morning, there it is! freshly brewed coffee.

in reply to ink and yarn

@emery I too can make coffee in the nude, however, i prefer to dress first lest I spill hot beverage upon parts of me not equipped to handle it

the implement of choice is one of Bialetti's finest, a birthday gift from an ex. sometime last century

flic.kr/p/2q7v2yv

But driving, merely to get coffee, inconceivable

in reply to ink and yarn

@emery That is the life. I've been thinking about getting a coffee maker with a timer, but wouldn't really have a place to put it, so I live with tolerable and exceptionally easy organic instant coffee. It's not the best taste, but it's alright. If I want to make actual coffee, there's always the French press, but it's annoying to clean so I usually don't...

Have you seen the ridiculous (in a good way) James Hoffman video about the bougie coffee maker marketed to do that exact same thing, but with a +200€ extra price tag for the bougieness? I love the video!

in reply to Sini Tuulia

I haven't seen that video - it sounds amusing!

Before I had a real coffeepot and/or a need for more than one cup of coffee at a time, I used a re-usable steeping thingie. It takes up next to no space and makes perfect single cups (once you figure out exactly how much coffee to put in and how long to let it steep for your taste). Bonus: it also works for tea.

It is this thing - primulaproducts.com/products/c…

in reply to ink and yarn

@emery Ah yes, a fine small sieve. 😄 I feel like a lot of marketing budget has gone onto making this slightly more convenient and slightly better result product sell for a lot more than, you know. A small steel sieve that you buy once, and if you don't let it rust, lasts for some 30 years!

The video, though: youtube.com/watch?v=UALN1ZoN6b…

in reply to Sini Tuulia

But the steel one doesn't fold flat! and it is less fine than the mesh bag, so harder to wash. (And I bought it for less than $5, so... there's that, too.)

Hm, maybe I need a fancy bedside coffeemaker alarm clock! :)

in reply to Sini Tuulia

@emery (I usually don't talk *products*, mostly anti-consumption, but they can pry my aeropress from my cold dead fingers, because it's essentially a french press if it were ridiculously easy to clean. Takes 20 seconds: unscrew filter lid, rinse filter to reuse (optional, imo very recommended), depress plunger to pop grounds into compost, rinse plunger head, pull plunger from chamber, lay on drying rack. 3min from hot water to coffee & clean kitchen.

Brew is competition-grade.)

in reply to Sini Tuulia

what concerns me is: if they're not awake enough to make the morning coffee that awakens them, then they're probably not awake enough to operate half a ton of metal at 50 km/h.
in reply to Sini Tuulia

I continue to be freaked out how accurate Wall-E's prediction of the future was.
in reply to Sini Tuulia

No, judge away. That’s a terrible mindset to have around either driving safely, or consumer ethics.
in reply to Sini Tuulia

When I say i wish I lived in a civilized country, I am in no way joking.

@sinituulia

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in reply to Sini Tuulia

Basically, I have everything at home for coffee, because I like coffee.

This isn't very onerous at all.

The idea of not having any of that and going to some shop for each individual cup of coffee is absurd to me.

Right there judging with you.

in reply to Sini Tuulia

seeing the price of a Starbucks, people have too much money... Unless there's some places where Starbucks and gas are cheap...
in reply to Onéira

@oneira Probably not a case of too much money, rather just being very bad at sensibly using it...
in reply to Sini Tuulia

Yup, _everything_ is car oriented here. It's utter insanity and to the detriment of everything that could be good. And I'm a _car person_! (That said, I like to _drive_, which is also negated by having everything be car centric.)
in reply to Sini Tuulia

We're kinda trained *not* to think about cars as the heavy machinery they are.
in reply to Alex Keane

@squishymage42 They're incredibly heavy and dangerous! Stars, I wouldn't even ride a bike if I wasn't properly awake. At least on a bus you can actively fall asleep and only miss your stop!
in reply to Sini Tuulia

the need to drive kilometers (excuse me: miles) to do just about anything is wild as well
in reply to undead lesbo vampire mommy

@lucie_tronvert Yep... It's not like the people can individually generally change that, but it's absolutely bonkers and so unsustainable.
in reply to Sini Tuulia

@lucie_tronvert The US is generally more rural and I happen to live in an area where driving is required due to terrain (mountains.) However, that's primarily because there are few or _no_ public transportation options. Worse, since driving is required in rural areas and affordable housing doesn't really exist in urban areas, that means more car commuting & designing infrastructure for it, meaning urban areas are even worse! Except here, most commuting time is traffic, not distance!
in reply to Sini Tuulia

Am I the only one that isn't at all surprised at this? And this is only because I've been out there. I've seen these people. I've even worked with some of them.

It is exactly for this reason that I work from home, do all of my shopping online and generally only leave the house to walk the dogs.

If I have to leave the house for any other reason, I firstly check to see if I'm going to meet generally like minded people. If not, I'm not going.

I am in my bubble and I'm not coming out.

in reply to fuzzyface

@fuzzyface Well, I'm sure glad it's not a thing here. If a student is, let's say, too busy in the morning to properly have a nice cup of coffee or tea... They'll just drop by the school or university cafeteria or some automat in a hallway to get it when they're already there, and have done all the prerequisite steps. Pretty much any workplace in Finland will also have either vending machines or hot beverages available. Often they're also free.

I cannot fathom the idea of driving somewhere and then driving back home to finish getting ready, and only then (probably) drive where you actually need to be going. Absolutely unreasonable, that's so many more times the effort, not even counting the energy use in gas or electricity to move the car!
I like going outside, but it's simply so much effort compared to just staying in, too.

in reply to Sini Tuulia

Car culture in North America is truly next-level shit. Just look at the screaming hissy fits you get from people who misunderstand "fifteen minute cities".
in reply to 🇨🇦🇩🇪🇨🇳张殿李🇨🇳🇩🇪🇨🇦

@zdl Yeah... I once watched a new urbanist (of the Strong Towns variety, who are usually pretty reasonable) try to explain to a disabled person who couldn't walk very well why everybody *else* not being in cars and being able to walk to places 15 minutes away would make their own disabled life easier. It simply did not connect to any sort of brain lobe beyond the fear lobe, and the worry that someone would take away their car. I suppose they just had no idea anything else was possible, because they'd never seen it anywhere! Kind of sad.
in reply to Sini Tuulia

I live in a city that's pretty close to being a 15 minute city. People still drive cars. (Too much, for my tastes!) This is in a literal dictatorship and people haven't had their cars taken away from them.

It's so utterly frustrating to try to explain to the car crowd that 15 minute cities give *OPTIONS* that don't include cars, not effin' MANDATES.

in reply to 🇨🇦🇩🇪🇨🇳张殿李🇨🇳🇩🇪🇨🇦

@zdl It's really really frustrating. Because of general empathy for how much misery the car centred cities cause without people even realising it, as well as the climate.
in reply to Sini Tuulia

@Sini Tuulia

I can only understand this for someone who actually lives in their car. Which is apparently increasingly common in the US.

in reply to Martijn Vos

@mcv Well, if they live in their car, they're technically home while they get it...

But more seriously, the whole housing and work situation in the US is absolutely horrible. If someone living in their car wants to get a nice treat to make life more bearable, they have carte blanche from me.

in reply to Sini Tuulia

they operate machinery before coffee, 95% of coffeeaholocics could not find their car keys before coffee!
in reply to Estarriol, Cat owned Dragon

@Thebratdragon It is distressing to me! I am liable to accidentally put the sugar into the fridge and forget to put the kettle on when I haven't yet had coffee, I can't imagine operating anything more complicated than a keyboard at that point!
in reply to Sini Tuulia

@Thebratdragon In all seriousness, you _do not_ want to see how they operate motor vehicles even _after_ they've had their coffee. The amount of entitlement and utter disregard for their own safety, let alone others -- even those _in_ other motor vehicles, absolutely disregarding _any_ thought of motorcyclists, cyclists, pedestrians, etc. -- is just unfathomable. Then there's the contempt for everyone else that quickly boils over into road rage... regardless of fault!
in reply to Morgan Aldridge

@Thebratdragon Years ago, my rural state had to pay to air TV commercials to educate drivers how to navigate roundabouts because it was the only effective way. The number of roundabouts have increased because they reduce fatal collisions, but the number of drivers I see struggle _every day_ is obscene. I'm not talking little things like yielding/signalling, I'm talking driving the wrong way around the roundabout with all other oncoming traffic stopping & honking (seen this morning.)
in reply to Morgan Aldridge

@morgant The worst people tend to fuck up in roundabouts here is that they misread a sign and then have to do another trip round it. Which is kind of funny looking if it's a big trailer truck doing it, but at least there's room for it!
in reply to Sini Tuulia

My area is an outlier on this aspect, but the majority of our roundabouts are small/ So much so that they have a single lane, but also an inner, raised, cobbled lane that is for truck trailerss to ride on as they navigate the circle. I've not seen a truck have to make multiple trips around while doing so, but it must happen.
in reply to Morgan Aldridge

Speaking of, nearby we have a mountain "notch" road which winds tightly through glacial boulders. It's beautiful and treacherous enough for cars, let alone the large pickup trucks everyone likes to drive, but it is literally impassable by large trucks. However, because everyone like to rely on GPS navigation, especially commercial trucks for the shortest/fastest route, they get stuck so often that we have added a fine ($3000 IIRC), tons of signage, including electric for 20+ miles!
in reply to Morgan Aldridge

I haven't looked at the stats recently, but it really feels like there has been no reduction in the number of stuck trucks. When you drive the highway and roads approaching the "notch" and then the notch itself, it's absolutely mind-boggling that _anyone_ would proceed, especially someone specifically licensed to operate such a massive vehicle!
in reply to Morgan Aldridge

@morgant Sunk cost fallacy, perhaps! Or they deeply dread reversing even a little bit.
in reply to Sini Tuulia

For sure! Probably also feel the risk is justified if they _can_ get through vs the lost pay if they deviate from the allowed travel time/mileage.
in reply to Sini Tuulia

for coffee that probably isn't even as good as what you could make at home for less. people think we're weird for like putting effort into making coffee, but it's less effort than going outside for it?
in reply to refraction :verified_transgender:

@elexia Maybe they were just really really bad at making coffee. But personally, I'd just make the bad coffee at home and get the nice coffee later, if I absolutely needed to for any reason.
I like making nice coffee myself, and a very specific dark roast and acidity. But I'll also just make instant coffee with a bunch of sugar if I can't be bothered to.
in reply to Sini Tuulia

@elexia if instant coffee tastes too awful, I've found mixing instant coffee with hot cocoa works really well for a ersatz moccachino
in reply to Sini Tuulia

we really like to experiment especially since we're kinda new to coffee so we get very mixed results, but we found it's not that hard to make decent enough coffee following a basic recipe and adjusting slightly from there. honestly our experimentation is more likely to yield us worse rather than better coffee 😅
in reply to Sini Tuulia

you can make up for a lot of deficiencies with some additives too. we like a particular kind of oat milk for that.
in reply to refraction :verified_transgender:

@elexia Oat milk, brown sugar and cacao mix (the kind that stirs into even cold liquid) will cover up multiple coffee making mistakes, yes. 😄
in reply to Sini Tuulia

And they will justify spending $900 per month on their car/truck in part because they need a reliable vehicle to get their essential morning coffee.
in reply to Sini Tuulia

EVERYTHING about this is so wrong, let me count the ways:
• Operating a vehicle before being awake.
• Making a pointless journey when there is a climate crisis.
• Giving custom to a horrible multinational.
• Wasting so much time and money.
• Drinking horrible coffee.

On every level, it is YUCK.

in reply to Michael ᚋᚔᚉᚆᚓᚐᚂ

@baoigheallain 100%. I mean, I've never actually tasted the company's beverages, but have been led to believe they're fairly average or even disappointing vis a vis coffee quality, and use a whole bunch of sugar and milk fat to make up for it.
in reply to Sini Tuulia

@baoigheallain
Their coffee is AWFUL. It’s over-roasted to stay fresh longer, so no one actually drinks it as a coffee. It’s some kind of sweetened milky artificially flavored thing with whipped cream that they call frappachino or some such nonsense. It’s as close to real coffeehouse coffee as McDonald’s is to a steakhouse.
in reply to Sini Tuulia

@baoigheallain average, but satisfying to dark roast lovers like myself! I can't stand the acidity of a lot of new wave light roast only places, so despite my love of fancy coffee, given that choice I'll get it from Starbucks. (I make better at home than anyplace out, to my own tastes, so this is rare.)
in reply to Sini Tuulia

Totally in agreement.
A friend has recently returned from visiting relatives in Canada. While there, they all got into the car for a trip to a reasonably local site of interest.
"Do you want a coffee?" he was asked, just before they set off. Strange, he thought, since they were about to leave, and declined.
Everyone else then got in with giant cups of coffee to put in the cup holders.
And he realised that he was staying with people who would only set off on a car trip when surrounded by containers of scalding hot liquid.
Funny old world.
in reply to Fragarach

@Fragarach 😄 It won't even be nice once it's cool enough to safely drink in a moving car... Just put some in a thermos and take a stack of cups with you if you can't survive a trip without!
Nice of them to make it at home, though.
in reply to Fragarach

but where do they go once the coffee ahem begins to work?

I try to stick to a place with a restroom for a while after having coffee…

in reply to mirabilos

@mirabilos
I suppose it depends on the length of the journey, he says, being boring about it.
However, having visited Canada (okay, BC) myself, there are lots of woods and forests.
Perhaps, as well as the bears doing what they have to, Canadians pee in the woods?
For myself, I'll confess to occasionally having to stop at a pub and buy something, just to use the loo.
in reply to Fragarach

Over here, if you were in the middle of driving a long distance, you'd stop at a tiny local pub, a grill, petrol station or another cafe... And get more coffee while you're already there. And thus, the cycle continues. 😄
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in reply to Sini Tuulia

Yes, I’m going to be judgy too. First of all, it strikes me as the height of laziness that they can’t be bothered to make coffee before going out, driving to get coffee (waste of gas), then coming back to finish their morning routine. And Starbucks on top of it! 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️
in reply to Elizabeth Moore

@Lpm1 I feel like the quantity of three separate facepalm emojis is quite correct!
in reply to Sini Tuulia

This is very common. What stood out was that the instigator chose Starbucks because they didn't need to get fully dressed for work before their coffee. These companies have spent (Starbucks, Dunkin', Tim Hortons) years changing the culture of their customers. It will take a lot to change it back

For the record I live in a city in NA and prepare my own Americano coffee using an espresso machine. Enjoy it, then get dressed in work clothes and walk 2 km to work.

in reply to Gareth

@gareth I had a friend who lived smack dab in the city centre and had a coffee place on the ground level of the high rise they lived in. They'd just elevator downstairs and through two doors, barely dressed, if they wanted a pastry in addition to their coffee, but would *still* make coffee at home if they didn't want to get the pastry. It wasn't cheap, even though it was low effort!
in reply to Sini Tuulia

they just need a teasmaid, once common in the UK and some commonwealth countries. It wakes you up with a fresh pot of tea.

Has the advantage of being fully automatic and it's tea instead of undrinkable coffee!

Silliness aside, as a non coffee drinker I find the whole thing bizarre. My family that do drink coffee, wouldn't touch a Starbucks with a bargepole...

in reply to Elena ``of Valhalla''

@Elena ``of Valhalla'' @Sini Tuulia @Adam Trickett :debian: :kde:

Why have I never heard of it? (Teasmade is the spelling I see online.) I've always thought about automating it. Why did they ever go out of fashion, instead of conquering the world?

in reply to Sini Tuulia

I hate to break it to you but coffee isn't great for the environment either. I keep trying to give it up, but I'm an addict apparently.
in reply to econads

@econads Oh yeah, it's probably the worst thing for the planet I habitually consume. I try not to throw any away and to only have as much as I need, and always buy organic. But at least I'm not driving to get to a place to get coffee, driving back home, and then driving to another place after getting dressed - every single day, apparently.

Planet murder is bad but if possible only do one planet murder, not three hundred of them a year!

in reply to Sini Tuulia

to be honest, my biggest problem is drive through coffee anyway. I mean... Why? In the UK at e.g. Solstice Park on A303, people line up their cars for drive through instead of parking and walking into the store.

I don't get it, where do you go after that to drink it? Surely not driving down the road at 70mph and trying to drink a scalding hot coffee at the same time!? But if you park up, why not just go into the store? Just seems massively lazy to me.

in reply to Sini Tuulia

Now I'm imagining a line of naked unshaven men in their cars, paying for coffee with their eyes closed, and then driving away, the eyes still closed.
in reply to Sini Tuulia

I don't drink coffee but I live in the US and want to offer some context. I am, by no means excusing any of this, but it's more than just the individual - it's systemic.
The clothes part is likely people in pajamas as it's become very acceptable in rural and some suburban areas for people to be in sleep wear and do grocery shopping. Maybe some masc being topless but most businesses have the right to not serve customers that aren't attired in a way they see fit.
(continued)
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in reply to Ami Moregore🧈🧈🧈🧈

Trying to not doxx a friend in rural Missouri so no addresses shown

Now for the big one: car culture. Our car industry has lobbied to make any number of laws to make it harder to have pedestrian friendly towns. But additionally it has resulted in people living further apart in rural areas.

I've only lived in cities, so I've had access to walkability but had no idea how the city I grew up in was honestly the least walkable. The nearest stores were mechanics... for cars (continued)

in reply to Ami Moregore🧈🧈🧈🧈

Capitalism, the classic villain for 33% of America's sins, (the other 66% is split between racism and patriarchy) has dismantled a great deal of local stores and also made franchising locations even more common. I'm certain there's better research out there but one article I looked into holds that 78% of coffee shops in the US are corporate chain coffee shops
bestqualitycoffee.com/magazine…
This is more than a personal failing but a systemic stemming one from capitalism killing off local
in reply to Ami Moregore🧈🧈🧈🧈

Hence why I'm all for the dismantling and abolition of capitalism and the investor class who are exploiting coffee farmers as well as the retail workers in those coffee shops. I may be a Cuban American, but I'm a Cuban American that doesn't drink coffee and favors anarchic collectivism
in reply to Ami Moregore🧈🧈🧈🧈

@Amimoregore Yes, to all of that. But they could have just made their coffee at home and circumvented multiple issues!
in reply to Sini Tuulia

At some point, the obsession with coffee stops being funny and starts being something I look increasingly warily upon. What people got there starts to look like addiction.

If you "can't function in the morning without it" and "would risk other people's lives driving in pyjamas to get a cup of coffee", you have a problem.

Yes, I like coffee (but I break fast with mate, normally), but I can wake up, get dressed, and start my day without *craving* caffeine.

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in reply to Adriano

@adriano I am dependent on caffeine most of the time because I am unmedicated for my ADHD! I assume a lot of the other people are just chronically sleep deprived and trying to run on fumes in the horror of society today, adding a wisp or two more of the fumes with coffee... I tend to have chronic insomnia, but now that I don't need to wake up at a set time, I *could* be functional without caffeine. I'd be more scattered, but I've done it before. When I had to wake up for school/work, I had to have immense amounts of tea or coffee to exist around people and needed it to focus.

Please fucking let people sleep, sleep deprivation is horrible for everybody and results in so many accidents, dips in health and mistakes and crabbiness in general!

in reply to Sini Tuulia

Agreed, and I apologize for speaking without considering those situations.

Even then, you recognize (as you did in the OP) that there are ways to do this that don't involve risking people's lives by driving half-asleep.

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in reply to Sini Tuulia

Just marking this to come back to tomorrow over my home made pour over coffee from (relatively) ethical beans, that I make while wearing clothes, so I can feel appropriately smug
in reply to Sini Tuulia

America isn't exactly a country, it's more like a bunch of social dysfunctions in a trench coat
Questa voce è stata modificata (2 mesi fa)
in reply to Sini Tuulia

There is a high student population in my neighbourhood, so there are some sights to be seen at local Starbucks, especially on a weekend morning, when hoody, pyjama trousers and slippers counts as "fully dressed." But at least they've walked there!
Questa voce è stata modificata (2 mesi fa)
in reply to Sini Tuulia

Is this comment from the US or Alberta?

The two most likely places for this kind of thing

in reply to Chu 朱

@chu I assumed from the US, though it was not readily apparent.
in reply to Sini Tuulia

I've lived in California, and people there rarely put on real clothes for anything. (That's both a snobbish French person comment, and something I like immensely because in my early twenties not feeling judged for my clothes was very freeing.) And even here in France no café will mind that you're walking in in sweatpants, a lose jumper and flipflops.

(Deliberately not commenting on the myriad other ways this is wrong.)

Unknown parent

Sini Tuulia

@cykonot Oh, I don't have issue with the clothing. I have issue with operating heavy machinery first thing in the morning to frequent a horrible multinational corporation that does everything it can to oppress its workforce and cut costs (except for the CEO flying private jets to commute, of course) - potentially putting everyone else on the road, the side walks and even the parking lot at risk, while also burning up the planet because it's a distance away...
When the other option would have been to literally make One Singular Beverage at home and get the nice one later. Absolutely no fucking contest, and I invite you to read any comment on a Youtube Shorts about Starbucks and its union busting to read the most appalling entitled car-brain horsehit of the same vein from several hundred people!

The car culture is sick and making people sick, and the percentage of deadly traffic collisions in the US is absolutely out of proportion to the rest of the world. Grace and understanding, yes. But looking askance at someone putting lives at risk and burning gas for COFFEE? Also yes.

Unknown parent

Sini Tuulia
@cykonot I refer to the number of traffic collisions, operating heavy machinery, the risk of doing so for very little reward, and the probably a dozen people appalled that someone would drive first thing in the morning in the replies to the first post, and I reiterate, for Starbucks coffee. I honestly don't know what I could say to you to make you not miss the point, though, so I'm going to stop trying.
in reply to Sini Tuulia

I bought my nephew a French press and pour over because he kept talking about buying coffee everyday and when I asked if he at least brought his own mug he looked at the ground.

This was when I brought him locally grown coffee because I live… on a coffee farm.

in reply to JoD

@jodmentum Oh my goodness. 😆 And just how much money was he even spending like that?? Every day!
@JoD
in reply to Sini Tuulia

They don’t see it. Driving is invisible to them. I complained to my parents that I hated having to drive everywhere when we visited them. “What are you talking about?” they said. “You guys have to drive to the store, drive to the golf course, drive to walk the dogs…” “Oh, that’s not driving, those are only five minutes [of driving] away.”
in reply to 🚲

@dx How does drive to walk the dog work? Is it lack of sidewalk? (Something I discovered in Toronto.)
@🚲
in reply to Nazim Bharmal

@nab26 They live on a busy road in an exurb. There is a sidewalk on one side now (a new addition), but it is unpleasant with the road noise. So they drive to one of several quieter roads and walk the dogs along those (which don’t have sidewalks, but also only have a few cars every hour)
in reply to 🚲

@dx @nab26 I am, once again, staring into the distance in European
in reply to Sini Tuulia

This reminds me of the three fast food drive-throughs in the small town next to me, all of them right next to mostly empty parking lots. What's the idea?
in reply to chico

@chicob I apologise for the language but for this nothing less will do: Motherfucking PARKING MINIMUMS. A certain size of business needs to have enough parking for their clientele, plus extra. It's an absolute scourge on US cities. Europe does have them too, but the amounts are much much smaller, and as I understand it, you can simply choose to not offer any parking?
in reply to Sini Tuulia

In this case, the parking minimum was already there before the drive-throughs were built. There is no need for a drive-through when you can simply stop the engine, order, and wait the exact same amount of time.
in reply to Sini Tuulia

I have known a couple of couples, although not well, who had no kitchen in normal sized houses that they owned. One couple moved from the city to the countryside near the town of Aberaron, but not in it and promptly ripped out the kitchen. They had a primary school age child. Went out for every meal and every drink. The choice is not great in that tiny town.
in reply to Ailbhe

@Ailbhe theguardian.com/society/2018/j…
This old article reckoned that would be the norm by 2030. I dare say covid and ultra processed food worries has stalled that trend
in reply to BeeDazzledCymru

@Beedazzled @Ailbhe My building was built for the working class and at such a time that it was assumed everyone would eat lunch and dinner at a soup kitchen, work cafeteria or such, when there were literally probably ten within walking distance... You'd just eat bread, canned soup, cold foods and such at home. And they STILL put in a tiny kitchen! It's not very large or even medium by modern standards, but it's a full kitchen!
in reply to Sini Tuulia

Whole beans, a simple grinder and a french press are my hosting solution as someone who doesn't have coffee routinely myself. The whole beans stay good for a long time and neither the grinder nor the press need an electrical outlet, and the whole setup takes up very little storage space.
in reply to Sax Brightwell 🌸

@saxbrightwell A French press is so good for other things as well! I used to use mine to rehydrate things like dried mushrooms. It doesn't take much space. When I only drank tea, I had instant coffee for the couple of people who wanted mediocre coffee instead of extremely nice loose leaf green tea!
in reply to Sini Tuulia

americans love them some cars and drive-thru everything...

i remember being in seattle in the 90s and seeing 3 drive-thru coffee places. i was really puzzled. i'm willing to get out of my car to get my coffee...

dallas TX "won" though. drive thru liquor stores and drive thru gun/ammo stores. yes. really. it's just nutso...

in reply to Paul_IPv6

@paul_ipv6 For me, the concept of going out for coffee means sitting down in a nice little cafe, perhaps having some kind of pastry that I definitely wouldn't be able to make at home without a lot of effort. Of course here you can get coffee (or tea) at almost any workplace or school, or else bring your own thermos!
in reply to Sini Tuulia

i get it. EU is very civilized. local shops everywhere you can walk to, sit down, etc.

the US car and fast food culture has co-opted coffee.

in reply to Paul_IPv6

@paul_ipv6 It's not even very civilised everywhere! But even the jankiest little town with nothing but a singular petrol station and country roads will have a little table set in front of one dusty window with a manky old tablecloth, and you can get infinite refills of coffee for next to nothing, and probably a cinnamon roll for next to nothing also. The culture is just different, coffee is for sitting down, and it's expected that you'll want to sit down for it.
in reply to Sini Tuulia

@paul_ipv6 There's this taste in America for simultaneous consumption of a half-dozen luxuries. You don't JUST drink a sweetened creamed coffee drink, you do it while livestreaming or texting or watching video on your phone in your air-conditioned front seat in an oversized, generally house-down-payment-priced vehicle.

Even if you WANT to opt out of this, it's an uphill, conscious effort to avoid (else, pay exorbitantly to live alongside those who got a taste for sanity abroad.)

in reply to Sini Tuulia

You are too European. 😂😂

Of course! I woke up. I go to the gym in my Mustang. Do my exercises. I shower, and while I drive back, I grab a coffee at McDonald's or Starbucks.

Europe is not standard. Just European. :ablobcatcoffee: :ablobcatheartsqueeze:

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in reply to lord pthenq1

@pthenq1 Coffee at McDonalds?

Now you have me looking up the English translation of “satisfaktionsfähig“

in reply to Rocketman

@slothrop
😂😂😂😂

I got attached to the Macdonald's coffee. It is not strong and it can be sipped as tea.

I think of Starbucks as a kind of liquid cake. It is good but sometimes it is too much.

in reply to lord pthenq1

@pthenq1 Btw I’d be significantly more impressed if you went to the gym *on* rather than *in* your Mustang

And someone once told me that “Starbucks is coffee for people who don’t like coffee”, and they were right.

in reply to Rocketman

@slothrop @pthenq1 Honestly, even picking up the coffee on your way back from somewhere is worlds better than Starbucks person...

But yeah. Looking out to see a city centre just wreathed in trees, and seagulls drifting across fluffy white clouds and a clear blue sky with excellent air quality... Being European is pretty cool.

in reply to Sini Tuulia

How… how is a Starbucks they need to *drive* to “closer” than their “local” coffee shop?? Or is it just about hiding in the car because they’re not actually dressed, and they’re *driving* to a coffee shop they could get to on foot?? Also, yes to everything you say about just making coffee at home! I can understand picking it up on one’s way to work, but the no real clothes thing makes me think the person is headed back home afterwards, so buying coffee from a coffee shop in those circumstances is just absurd.
in reply to kittyclimpo

@kittyc That's my interpretation as well, that they rolled out of bed to drive to a drive-through, were going home to drink the coffee and get dressed, and then head out again. And for some distance, since they weren't doing it by foot.
It truly boggles the mind.
in reply to kittyclimpo

@kittyclimpo @Sini Tuulia I wonder whether it's “local” as opposed to “part of a big chain”, but still far enough (or with bad enough roads) from where the person lives to require driving?
in reply to Elena ``of Valhalla''

@valhalla @kittyc Depends on what they consider local, too. I wouldn't say a location it took 20 minutes to drive to would be local - that's the next town/village over. But apparently for a lot of people in the US, that's just a grocery run.
in reply to Sini Tuulia

@Sini Tuulia @kittyclimpo my “local” yarn shop is a 20 minutes drive (going through a few villages), because I don't have any proper yarn shop at a closer distance, but I do use quotes around the “local“ part and only go there once or twice a year.

(insert rant on people around here not knitting enough and not knitting the right things :D )

in reply to Sini Tuulia

I read yesterday that the new CEO of Starbucks lives in California and intends to commute to work in Seattle several times a week in his private jet ( theguardian.com/business/artic… ) . A picture is forming in my head of a culture of people who burn way too much fossil fuel in pursuit of the caffeinated kind.
in reply to Sini Tuulia

I must admit to usually going for my morning double espresso naked.

The machine is in my kitchen though...

in reply to AlisonW ♿🏳️‍🌈

@AlisonW I share your amazement.

Our kitchen has rather too many windows for getting my coffee in the nude, but I certainly don’t do any more dressing up beyond the bare minimum required.

Also: talking? To a person? Before coffee? I think not.

in reply to Rocketman

Finally installing a blackout blind in the kitchen that faces the road has been a game changer. As many late night naked water refills etc as I want.
in reply to Bard :rat_pan: :genderqueer_potion:

@Bard I really like having one of those pretty patterned privacy films on my smaller windows! I can let the daylight in and not worry about drawing the curtains every time I'm changing clothes or out of them. 😄
in reply to Sini Tuulia

132 boosts in 6.5 hours, and 1,000 (I counted) screens of replies. Clearly an issue of transnational importance.

OK, +1 boost...

in reply to JoeP

@JoeP 😆 Oh JoeP, you rascal. Also, interestingly, it shows like 165 for me, but I assume that's a federation thing. Truly the tubes of the internet are mysterious.
@JoeP
Unknown parent

Sini Tuulia
@pkw Thank you for your permission, I try to be understanding of individual people faced with situations they cannot control... But this specific person? I shall judge a little bit, I think!
in reply to Sini Tuulia

@liw please stand up and spend the next 10 minutes clapping for one of the best toots of the month.
in reply to Sini Tuulia

*David Attenborough Voice*
'this is the soft shelled hyoomun, a member of the hyoomun family. Because of its soft, pudgy body it has grown reliant on using wheeled outer shells to move it around. Because of its weak body, it has to move across these tracks, that eventually get covered in asphalt it excretes. It cannot even forage for food without its outer casing, and it will do everything, even mating, on its asphalt tracks!
in reply to Sini Tuulia

I found myself semi-regularly driving to get a latte in the morning (as a form of stress eating, yes)...and one day I did a quick ROI calculation in my head, which had me acquiring an espresso machine and acquiring a new life skill *and* the coffee is better now.
in reply to tekhedd

@tekhedd Congrats on new life skill! I have no idea what Coffee Outside costs in other countries but with the prices Finnish lattes fetch, a normal person would be broke in a month of regularly purchasing them, probably.
in reply to Sini Tuulia

And I guess it's not an electric vehicle but exploding dinosaur juice...
in reply to Sini Tuulia

I don’t get the not getting dressed before heading out the door. I can see grabbing a coffee while out if I know I’m going to be out doing errands and it’s on the way. No you couldn’t pay me to walk or bike anywhere because there’s little to no paths and the drivers are dangerous (last few years in some areas they actively try to run you over).
in reply to Sini Tuulia

I live in a U.S. suburb, where people do this like it's a religion, and honestly, I judge to hell and back.

They could make it at home, better, much cheaper, and without pollution from either car fumes or disposable cups.

in reply to Sini Tuulia

as you should. I make iced coffee on the cheap every morning using…instant coffee, yeah, I know, but for me it works. I use a brand with fine crystals, more like a mild espresso. take out coffee is a luxury treat.
in reply to Sini Tuulia

Why would you do that when you can just have Starbucks deliver? /s

I actually know people who do get Starbucks delivered in the morning ffs.

in reply to Zillion

@zillion Wow, so they also financially support another company ripping off its employees at the same time? Whose employees still drive a car to deliver it? Efficiency!
in reply to Sini Tuulia

This actually may be one of the safer and more considerate drivers here. We call it #roadrage cbs12.com/news/local/watch-man…
in reply to Sini Tuulia

prep your coffee machine the evening before so you just have to turn it on in the morning. Brain doesn't know how to make coffee in morning.
in reply to Sini Tuulia

if you want to have your mind blown even more. Many drive throughs do not service people on foot or bikes. We are simply not people until we have an automobile. This was even true in early COVID vaccines, where many of the first places were drive throughs, and people not in cars were not allowed.
in reply to Adrianna Tan

@skinnylatte Haha oh god. It's not like the people most vulnerable would also have problems with owning or driving a car due to disability... What a nightmare.
in reply to Adrianna Tan

@skinnylatte We now have locations of various chains (Starbucks, Chick-fil-A, McDonald's, probably more) which are *solely* drive-through. They do not have a customer entrance at all, only multiple drive-through lanes, and their few parking spaces are for employees and gig-economy delivery drivers. If you are brave enough to walk up to the building you might find a service window, or you may not.

Here's an example: 34.720347495919945, -86.5849308088013

in reply to Kevin P. Fleming

@kevin Me, looking at the map: "Parking lot, parking lot, parking lot, parking... Where the fuck are the buildings??"
in reply to Adrianna Tan

@Adrianna Tan @Sini Tuulia

If you're on foot or bike, can't you simply go inside and order there? The few Dutch drive throughs I've seen always have a regular restaurant. But I can imagine it's different in the US with their extreme car dependency.

in reply to Sini Tuulia

I have my 100%FairTradeCertified coffee at home listening to music and lateron I take my bicycle to get to my business... Starbucks & Co miserably failed in getting my money. Know your enemies 😡
in reply to Sini Tuulia

seems to suggest that the price of gas is still too low. Just pick up a cup on the way to work, assuming he/she (or other pronouns) goes to work. My mocha pot makes a great cup of coffee with beans that I freshly grind for each cup. No waste. Grinds go in the garden. Most recyclers don’t take coffee pods. Too much weight (grinds), too little plastic. And the grinds need to be separated and disposed. Too much work!
in reply to Sini Tuulia

“Staring into the distance in European” is going to be my new status line.
in reply to belpatca

@belpatca I'm not saying Europeans are always better or right, but there sure are some fairly mind boggling cultural differences!
in reply to Sini Tuulia

can confirm this is extremely normal and a common practice for a majority of Americans
in reply to Sini Tuulia

The actual labor to make coffee in the morning for me is less than a minute. So none of this makes sense to me.
Unknown parent

Sini Tuulia
@PhotoSniperFox Listen. This time it was literally choosing a Starbucks instead of any other non-Starbucks location, which you'd know if you read the second post in the thread, mentioning the original context.
But you're obviously very upset, so I (not a native English speaker but academically fluent in it) wish you all the best, that you some day get to experience what it's like to be normal about cars, and maybe have a nap.
in reply to Sini Tuulia

I worked at a Starbucks for a couple years and it was the saddest thing, I am fully the kind of person who sees "going to a coffee shop" as a thing that you do for an hour or two with your laptop for chill freelance work vibes, not... whatever this nonsense is. Get a brewer! I almost never go there now because there are better coffee shops to hang out at and I can make perfectly good coffee at home.
in reply to Trixter of the Moon Council

Though based on my experience, what that commenter probably gets isn't coffee but heavily sweetened milk that was once acquainted with an espresso shot, long ago.
in reply to Trixter of the Moon Council

@trixter A bit of hot milk and sugar shown the shadow of espresso a decade ago, perhaps? 😄
Though I have kind of gathered that a lot of people also get one to four amounts of espresso in whatever usually only takes one, so who knows.
Over here, even if you get coffee in a rush... You sit down to have it! Even if it's just for ten minutes, you pause everything else and drink it, and then go on with whatever you're doing. The only exception is probably working on the computer in an office, but every office will also have a break room, cafeteria or similar - and a lot of the time when you're *really* working on the computer, you're either mainlining black coffee or have some kind of bottled energy drink anyway. 😆

Sitting down to pause is probably better for humans in many ways.

in reply to Sini Tuulia

It is! Even in the mornings, I make my coffee with a plain old drip brewer, then sit down and drink it while playing Animal Crossing for about half an hour. (I used to catch up on social media then, but Animal Crossing is much healthier. 😬) I was lucky enough to find a pretty good espresso machine at a thrift shop, and working at Starbucks gave me the skills to use it, so if I really need a caffeine boost more than a quiet moment, there's that.
in reply to Sini Tuulia

As a Canadian I obviously know people just like this but personally I can't imagine leaving the house *before* getting a couple of cups of coffee into me first.
in reply to Sini Tuulia

And in the next breath they blame Joe Biden for prices being high...
in reply to Sini Tuulia

as an American I invite you to please keep judging. We suck at like... most things. And often so hard it becomes a problem for literally everyone everywhere.
in reply to Lyons

@lyonsinbeta Thank you! I just wish we could as a planet have nice things, like the planet!
in reply to Sini Tuulia

Reminds me of the person who didn't bother owning an umbrella because they could just use their car as an umbrella.
in reply to scott f

@scott I wonder if this *is* the reason why in some places a lot of infrastructure just can't cope with rain. Huge puddles that drivers can use to wash pedestrians? Little "cover" in a train platform that does not stop rain from reaching you? Unusable slippery sidewalks?

Maybe those who designed and planned these things always move inside cars...

in reply to njsg

@njsg @scott *Desperately trying to contain neurodivergent special interests, slightly failing*

I mean, rainwater and drainage engineering is *super* complex and fascinating, but among many issues there now the weather is just broken, but also umbrellas used to be a thing you simply had, so it wasn't that strange to think everyone would have one... But that's just the awnings and eaves and such. There's also how you're supposed to re-level an asphalt road like every five years or so, but this isn't done because there's simply so much of it! And of course because it's non-porous, all of that washed off water needs to flow somewhere, and because everything eventually leaks, it ends up places it doesn't belong...
And yes, every time someone suggests making things nicer for pedestrians, someone asks "But what about the cars?" or remarks that nobody walks anyway!

in reply to Le Néandertal sous benzo

@HydrePrever Many places in the US are not walkable, so I can understand not walking there, but what I cannot understand is not making it at home instead!
in reply to Le Néandertal sous benzo

To be fair to the typical American suburban dweller there's probably not a cafe within reasonable walking distance and even if there is it's likely on the other side of a six lane 55mph stroad and the nearest traffic controlled crossing is 2 miles in the wrong direction.
in reply to Sini Tuulia

Es gibt mehrere gute Gründe Starbucks auch aus anderen Gründen nicht aufzusuchen und ganz zu boykottieren, einer ist hier zu finden : edition.cnn.com/2024/08/23/bus…
in reply to Sini Tuulia

I really like my coffee, am European, and if you are not judging, let me tell you I am doing the work for both of us. Big time.
in reply to Sini Tuulia

I'm reading the comments and I'm getting exactly the same feelings with people talking about capsules while I use a simple and almost infinitely reusable moka pot
in reply to Riton la Manivelle FAN ACCOUNT

@isblagi I prefer a French press, since I already have a kettle for hot water! But it's also kind of a hassle to clean if I forget about it even once (and I do!) so most of the time I just shrug and have a reasonable enjoyment and very little effort organic instant coffee...
in reply to Sini Tuulia

Well, how else is she supposed to get to the Starbucks? Between her home and there, there is not even a safe connection a pedestrian could walk. (Not joking, American suburbs are weird.)

Also I now I am envisioning all these women with only a bedsheet draped across their body, driving their 2t SUV to the Starbucks for an espresso. 😅

in reply to Rebecca Cotton-Weinhold

@rlcw Ah, but she (the username did not indicate gender, so who knows what the pronoun is) could have just... Made coffee at home. 😆
Yeah, the car centric environment of most of US is an absolute trash fire. And like a trash fire, also inconveniently fuming all over everyone else even a great distance away!

Somebody else was imagining a drive through line of unshaven and undressed men driving with their eyes closed the whole way! Perhaps what was missing from that vision was the two tonne SUVs!

in reply to Sini Tuulia

A totally revolutionary idea.

If you have time to drive to a coffee shop, you have time to make your coffee at home.

in reply to Sini Tuulia

for comparison, in the UK I have the privilege to get a fresh cold drink from the tap in 30 seconds without risking to kill someone.
in reply to Sini Tuulia

I just want to say that you can make coffee without capsules, just like people did eight? ten? years ago. I still do and it's nothing fancy.
in reply to Sini Tuulia

This whole starbucks thing boggles my mind for a long period. First their plain coffee is crap. If you go there for syrups and creams with a small amount of coffee in, don't call this grabbing 'a coffee'. Put the kettle on at home, pour some hot water on a filter with coffee and you'll have a much better coffee. And if you go out for 'a coffee', get it in a real coffee shop which uses a proper espresso machine. 🙂
in reply to haerench

@haerench I'm told you can even purchase all of the syrups and "speciality" coffees from there at home! I figure a basic pour over on any old coffee filter with your preferred quantity of other things in would be worlds cheaper but also nicer and less carbon. And slightly less nice but less effort to just use a drip coffee maker and get more at the same time...
in reply to Sini Tuulia

have you been to a US airport? I'm kinda surprised when anyone is dressed in the US.
in reply to Ray Jepson

@mister914 Ah, no. 😆 Funnily enough did just watch a video essay about airport fashion, and how it went from people being nicely dressed to such casual wear that you'll sometimes buy a 200 dollar hoodie so you can be comfortable but still flaunt your money and status...

Build back the rail network, destroy the airports is what my heart says, even though my brain knows it's not that easy.

Unknown parent

Sini Tuulia

@Ailbhe @WhippoorwillSong Like, in theory if the delivery person was also delivering 20 other things? This would be much better than twenty individual people all driving! I wish they'd get fairly paid for their work, too. Sometimes I've gotten food delivered as a treat and because I couldn't just make myself do it, and hella tip them every time.

I live in the city centre pretty much, so it's within cycling distance of any old place, so the deliveries get made on bikes or electric scooters, though!

Unknown parent

Ailbhe

@WhippoorwillSong once when I was having a bad day with small babies, a friend saw my (livejournal? Facebook?) post about it and appeared on my doorstep with a fresh takeaway coffee. I have OFTEN wished for delivery luxury coffee since then. It was amazing.

But I don't think ubereats would deliver from the local cooperative fair trade coffee shop she used.

in reply to Ailbhe

@Ailbhe I have previously been amused by thinking "The Noodle Man cometh" when I was tracking a bit of Thai food with rice noodles coming my way. 😆
in reply to Sini Tuulia

that's why I make my v60 coffee at home. And I don't need to talk to anyone!
in reply to Sini Tuulia

I don't know what bougie ass does that. My car is barely running as it is, and I make my own coffee. We're not all stupid and spoiled. I've worked my busted disabled ass off for the little that I have. For every wakadoo American that does stupid things like that, there are 20 who can barely afford to survive and we hate these privileged morons too.
I am ashamed of these idiots, but they are a small, overly vocal, part of this country. The rest of us are to busy trying to survive.
in reply to Ian Langham

@Langhamian Yup. It's also highly likely they're quite young and haven't yet developed the Anti-Bullshit Lobe that allows them to see what a horrible advertising scam a huge portion of the US culture is. There's almost always entitlement before there is wisdom as humans grow up, I feel.
Anyway, I have multiple dear friends in the US, in similar situations to you, and I do genuinely feel bad for everyone *having* to live over there and not being able to enact change because systems are systems and capitalism is capitalism. But while systems and capitalism is hard to change, cultural shifts come from people, so maybe there's some hope!
in reply to Sini Tuulia

I hope that's true. I wish that the healthcare system worked here as well as over there. I wouldn't be this busted. I rode my bike every day for ten years. I taught myself to work in porcelain, stoneware, oils, watercolor, acrylics, and pastels. I clocked 180 miles a week and now I can't even ride, but I can't get a single doctor to repair the damage because I am poor and I have the 'hurry up and die' insurance plan.

Sorry for the rant, it's been a rough morning
Blessings
🤘❤️🤘

in reply to Ian Langham

@Langhamian You have my sincere empathies. I'd be unable to walk and probably also be dead if I didn't have municipal universal healthcare, so it really really is a good thing to have. There's a lot I still can't do (including actual work for multiple reasons, lol) but at least I can spend some amount of time researching, making and enjoying things, which is worlds better than the alternative. 😅

I hope your day improves, best of luck with any endeavour or at the very least getting some rest! 💚

in reply to Sini Tuulia

@cheetah_spottycat It doesn't sound too weird tbh, or at least not weirder than US folks driving anywhere else for food and beverage. I assume they mean going out in comfy PJs which doesn't seem unsafe or that unreasonable, tbh. I do the same when I don't have any breakfast at home and walk over to the store real quick to grab some bread and stuff. I am fully awake and aware in those moments, but also incredibly lazy. Guessing the same is true there.
in reply to Sini Tuulia

Reading this while sitting at a Starbucks. Fully dressed mind you.
in reply to Sam Minter

@abulsme Good job for not using the drive through, at least! I hope it's one of the unionised locations, there's more and more even if corporate tries to shut them up as quick as possible. 😄 Sadly there's nothing to be done about the private jet commuting CEO unless someone has extremely good aim with a brick!
in reply to Sini Tuulia

It is evident that they know less than nothing about coffee.
Unknown parent

Sini Tuulia

@fifilamoura @kallemp Recycling industry *for plastics*, because quite a lot of other things do actually recycle quite well! We really don't need virgin wood for cellulose, energy pellets, cardboard, toilet paper, etc... And a lot of metals, especially rare earth, are much less energy, effort and pollution to reuse.
It's just that the plastic recycling is mostly a scam, and often because it's too expensive to be profitable.

But yes. We just need to use less plastic, period.

Unknown parent

Fifi Lamoura

@kallemp Yeah, we just need to get rid of most plastics. Reusing them doesn't get rid of the microplastics problem. The reality is that the recycling industry was always just an attempt to greenwash plastics by the petrochemical industry so we'd continue to buy and use plastics instead of finding better and more sustainable options.

@miah @zeborah @iju @sinituulia @Ailbhe @renwillis

Unknown parent

Fifi Lamoura

@miah I'm not chastising you, just pointing out that with plastic there's no really good way to dispose of most of it that doesn't create downstream harm. We simply need to be using far less plastic, which can be difficult to do and is pretty much always about making lifestyle changes. And, of course, our problems are systemic ultimately so there's only so much we can do individually.

That said, we can all make some lifestyle adjustments to consume and pollute less and there are lots of people trying to solve the excess packaging problem (mainly outside of the massive corporations, of course). Bar shampoos, for instance. Or laundry soap strips or concentrates instead of big plastic bottles. Making your own soda using a refillable machine instead of buying bottles.

@zeborah @iju @sinituulia @Ailbhe @renwillis

Unknown parent

Miah Johnson
@fifilamoura @zeborah @iju @Ailbhe @renwillis right. But at least im using it more than once and not simply trashing it. Or doing like the previous owners and just burying my trash. It's all about steps in the right direction and threre is little I can do about the problem here. If you'd like to come here and collect all this plastic from me and recycle it yourself let me know!
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Unknown parent

Fifi Lamoura
@miah @zeborah @iju @Ailbhe @renwillis This, unfortunately, isn't great either because it still eventually becomes microplastics in the environment.
Unknown parent

Miah Johnson

@zeborah @iju @Ailbhe @renwillis I've been trying to cut my Soda habit, which will cut down on our plastic. But everything else in the kitchen its harder.. So many condiments and such are plastic. I try to buy glass or cardboard container things as much as possible because those items are much more recyclable than anything plastic.

All the large plastic bottles I usually end up using in the garden / garage for various things. I've cut up and reused so much plastic.

Unknown parent

Juho Mäntysalo

@miah @Ailbhe @renwillis

As hypothesis, pickup for recycling should be cheaper than pickup to landfill, as the company will sell the metals/paper/plastic/bio/whatever forward.

If the cost is the same or —godforbid— more, then they're lying somewhere and should be investigated.

So if you're interested, ask your mom the cost of pickup. It should answer some questions (and perhaps rise more).

in reply to Juho Mäntysalo

@iju If it's purely user-pays I'd expect the opposite: pretty sure I've read the only thing where recycling is *cheaper* than just mining/felling it from scratch is maybe aluminium.

For plastic, it's more expensive and the resulting plastic is lower quality so (apart from making some PR products) most plastic for "recycling" gets shipped to a third party who quietly dump it for you.

Anyway I still dutifully recycle but I try to reduce/reuse more too.

@miah @sinituulia @Ailbhe @renwillis

in reply to Sini Tuulia

Oh, yes, I only meant plastics. We should be recycling metals and it's a real problem that it has often become cheaper to mine them than recycle them (this did not used to be the case at all!) @kallemp
Unknown parent

Sini Tuulia
@rlcw @kallemp All of that but ALSO ban the fucking fighter jets and massive drills and parades that burn up immense amounts of state budgets and ludicrous amounts of refined oil fuels and even ethanol that could have been used somewhere else. Coincidentally it would probably also mean less murder and respiratory illnesses.
Unknown parent

Rebecca Cotton-Weinhold
@kallemp @miah @zeborah @iju @Ailbhe @renwillis Switching to renewable energy, driving electric cars, reducing meat in the diet, or even living in a city where you don't need your own car will increase your quality of life and probably also it's duration. So please stop spreading nonsense, and do take some responsibility. The goal us net zero, not net -15%.
Unknown parent

KalleMP
@rlcw @miah @zeborah @iju @Ailbhe @renwillis I have seen estimates that the military causes between 10 and 20% of emissions and this is in peace time. Cutting it in half would probbaly be a bigger saving than citizens could do by living in deprivation.
in reply to Miah Johnson

@miah @zeborah @iju @Ailbhe @renwillis Glass needs to be reused very often to have a better footprint than plastic. Non recyclable plastic also does not need to end up in a landfill. It can also be burned providing district heating.
You don't have to use plastic of course, but just pointing out, that the effect is not as sustainable as people assume. Just reading "not the end of the world", which contains this helpful chart on the effect if lifestyle changes.
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Unknown parent

Sini Tuulia

@renwillis @rlcw @kallemp It's pretty simple, to me: Do what you can. If you can't move, never drive, buy only renewable energy, lobby, correct misinformation, reduce or remove meat consumption (like my friend who's allergic to every legume and most raw vegetables, but tries to buy less carbon & methane heavy meat!), reduce, reuse, skip utterly frivolous trips... Just do whatever you can, when you can. If you can't, don't.

The people capable of lobbying and changing policy are already doing it (and need your support via votes and signatures), trends can be affected by consumer behaviour (We've already started seeing "green" as a good thing versus something only dirty weird hippies want!) and whatever little you can personally do? At the very least it will help you sleep at night and not feel that guilty when the subject comes up, best case scenario it also helps make a difference.

Every little bit helps, and despair and inaction makes the assholes win.

in reply to Rebecca Cotton-Weinhold

@rlcw @kallemp @miah @zeborah @iju @Ailbhe wasn’t sure if this was a satire reply? How is it remotely feasible for most people to do this? Do I just expect everyone to uproot their lives and move to walkable cities, somehow also afford EV cars and, what, solar panels for their apartments? 40% of americans are financially insecure and this shit ain’t cheap.

The real answer is aggressive regulation of the impactful polluters. Corps, orgs, govs, & the rich.

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in reply to Sini Tuulia

@rlcw @kallemp yep! 100%. Do what you can, try to inform yourself as best you can (though navigating misinformation is very challenging and getting worse). Fortunately, the EU is beginning to regulate green claims.

My day job is in sustainability for a large global company. It feels like moving mountains sometimes, but every inch has real global impact.

#1 with a bullet is holding corporations accountable and working toward forcing them to netzero through regulations.

in reply to ren 🏳️‍🌈 (a they/them)

@renwillis And there's both malicious misinformation purposefully spread, misinformation people have picked up unknowingly, and misinformation that used to be the scientific consensus but has been partially or completely disproven. There's also a lot of culture that simply needs to change, it's not even about anyone being misinformed, just what people are used to.

Thank you for doing something that has the potential to be very effective! Corporations won't stop until they're deeply incentivised to do so, and regulations and penalties are the only things they tend to care about beyond profit.

in reply to Sini Tuulia

I knew our culture was bad here, but it was a very creepy eye opener when I was cycling in a neighbourhood near my home early-ish on a Saturday morning. This neighbourhood has no services in it, everything is a drive away. It's so hilly it's also kind of unpleasant to walk very far.

As I was riding, garage doors were opening nearly in unison and piles of people where heading out in their SUV/pickups. As I was riding back a short while later, it seemed pretty clear that most of them were doing a "Timmie's run" (Tim Horton's coffee(ish) shop) rather than make their own coffee, as many were pulling back in to their driveways. There were so many it really sent a chill up my spine - as I say, I knew our culture was bad, but I had no idea this neighbourhood basically disappeared for a short bit on a weekend morning like this. Creepy as all hell.

These are people who chose to live at the top of a hill with no services around so they could have a nice big house and yard. And they can't be bothered making coffee.

Taxes just aren't set properly.

in reply to Kinetix

@kinetix Oh god, that's like a scene from some absurdist horror movie! I can imagine the terrible neon pastel colour grading and a hauntingly stretched out rendition of some vintage poppy song in the background. 🙃

Yeah. I might have further thoughts after I've had my morning coffee, but am currently in the state prior to it, and therefore barely capable of accomplishing such simple tasks as remembering what I was doing a minute ago.
Taxation and regulation, absolutely. Gosh, a long time ago they may have even put a tramway to reach the top of the hill.

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