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If you live in a city with tall buildings, take a look at the night skyline. The buildings probably have flashing lights on them to help aircraft pilots to identify the shapes of buildings and not fly into them.

You might notice that the buildings flash in synchrony, even though they are hundreds of metres apart. What's going on?

(continued)

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in reply to Deborah Pickett

ooo ooo, I know this one.... or I did. can remember reading up on it
in reply to ajft

@ajft Pretty sure you were among the detective group that found the pattern in the first place.
@ajft
in reply to Deborah Pickett

and in related matters, I just got to sit at a stop-go person while a ginormous crane was being erected for the latest block 'o apartments that's going up in oakleigh. Was looking for the lights on it, but can't really see them in day time
in reply to Deborah Pickett

The idea is that all the lights on a given building should flash together. That way, an aviator can visualize the solid space between lights that blink the same way. Blink same? Don't fly. Blink different? That's a gap.

And that's how it worked for a while. A building's owner would wire all the lights together and feed them with a centralized oscillator signal.

Later on, when wire got expensive and buildings got taller, they switched to short-range radio, with one transmitter sending the blink signal, and each light having a receiver in it.

This worked fine, because all oscillators will drift eventually, so every building gets a different blinking pattern.

Then GPS happened.

in reply to Deborah Pickett

Now you can buy a beacon like this one, which is standalone and has a GPS receiver in it. Anyone who's cobbled together an NTP server will know that the GPS system can provide microsecond-accurate time as a side-effect.

So these beacons don't care where they are, but they all know exactly when "now" is. And they can synchronize to each other by synchronizing to the GPS signal. It makes maintenance _so_ easy.

in reply to Deborah Pickett

Trouble is, these beacons come preset to a particular blink pattern, and when you buy one (ten, fifty) you're probably not going to bother to change the blink pattern in them all. What if you forgot to do one?

So what happens is that your building is synchronized to GPS, and so is your neighbour's building, and so is _their_ neighbour's building. The whole city flashes once every two seconds, like clockwork.

Completely negating the whole point of having one blink-pattern per building, and rendering aviation around tall buildings unsafe again.

It's an accidental own-goal, brought about by the efficiencies of global, perfect, timekeeping.

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in reply to Deborah Pickett

(Postscript: a few of us here on the Fedi worked this out from first principles after someone noticed that the lights on several buildings in their city were all blinking together. It was a great piece of detective work.)
in reply to Deborah Pickett

hi yes hello I was part of an art project that made use of this idea and I think of it every time I see groups of blinky lights ^_^

kickstarter.com/projects/96622…

we ended up building our own lights and controllers and firmware for it, mostly because they would also - about every 10 minutes - display the speed of a seismic wave thru that particular soil geology github.com/ArdentHeavyIndustri…

Deborah Pickett reshared this.

in reply to 🇵🇸 Mari :nb_crossbow:

hey I wanted to massively apologize for unintentionally hijacking your educational thread 😅 I had absolutely *not* anticipated the wildly different direction the conversation went

and I also wanted to ask about how y'all had worked it out from first principles! because that sounds like a lovely conversation and represents so much of what I love about fedi :moomin_sparkles:

in reply to 🇵🇸 Mari :nb_crossbow:

@bouncinglime No apology needed! It was not perceived that way!

The detective work was largely:
• They must be synchronizing to something wide-area.
• Even in parts of the world that don’t do the shortwave radio clock thing.
• They seem to flash for an exact number of seconds.
• If it’s GPS then there must be GPS-enabled beacons for sale online.
• Web search > oh, lookit that.

in reply to Deborah Pickett

ah yes I did notice synchronised blinking a few months ago. Thanks for that.
in reply to Deborah Pickett

Thankyou for explaining this! I've tried to take photos of the Melbourne CBD skyline at night and noticed that many of the buildings have rooftop navigation lights in synch, a few switch with the same period but a different part of the cycle, and a few others appear to drift over time so they appear to harmonise sometimes but not at other times.
in reply to Deborah Pickett

Very interesting thread! I can't help but wonder: if they have GPS, they not only sync but can also get coordinates of their location, ignoring height. So assuming resolution of <10meters and assuming buildings are usually >=5meters wide in any direction and have some space between them, wouldn't it be trivial to use the beacon's location as a seed to sync up all the lights of a building but ensure they are different from the beacons of the buildings next to them?
in reply to Jorge

@jorgeyanesdiez I can't think of a way to do this without the beacon needing to have a copy of a map. Consider in a dense downtown: the corners of different skyscrapers may be across a street only 20 m wide but the buildings themselves fill a 200 m block. Closeness is actually the _opposite_ of what you want.
in reply to Deborah Pickett

You're totally right, I foolishly pictured all beacons being centered instead of delimiting corners.
in reply to Deborah Pickett

@jorgeyanesdiez

If the buildings are that close together it might be safer to have them on the same blink schedule so they appear to be one contiguous structure. Because you probably don’t want anyone trying to fly between them.

in reply to Jorge

sorry never mind what I just said @weaselx86 had already pointed it out
in reply to Deborah Pickett

Cool! I've noticed the lights on a group of nearby wind turbines all blinked together, very satisfying, but I did wonder how they were synchronized. Thanks for the explanation!
in reply to Deborah Pickett

Nobody building the lights thought to put some kind of random jitter around the timings?
in reply to crater🐮n

@cratermoon How do you ensure that the ten lights you bought today for your new building all have the same jitter? Safest to engineer out that opportunity for user error.
in reply to Deborah Pickett

Ah, I see, I didn't understand how multiple beacons/building should work, thanks for clarifying.
in reply to Deborah Pickett

This is super interesting. I'm a certified pilot, and I've never heard about these flashing patterns before!
in reply to Willow :trans_flag: 飛柳

@Willow It could depend on the jurisdiction. I found a mention by CASA (Australia) that large objects are required to flash simultaneously; see section 9.34 (4). reddotsignal.com/standards/cas…
in reply to Deborah Pickett

Oh, fascinating. I'd noticed this synchronization with things like AM broadcast antenna tower arrays before, which maybe is a lot like a single building conceptually, but I hadn't noticed city skylines in recent years.
in reply to Deborah Pickett

Couldn't they manufacture them to blink at a time based on the bottom bits of their latitude/longitude? So that lights on the same building would blink nearly simultaneously, but lights on different buildings would blink at discernibly different times?
in reply to Weasel

@weaselx86 Thank goodness buildings are built on a grid 131072 to the degree! 🙃

But seriously, they are already made with customizable blink timing patterns, but the fact that you see entire cities blinking like one giant Christmas tree tells you how much this feature is being used.

in reply to Deborah Pickett

Right, the lack of use of the customization is why I was looking for a manufacturing default that might accomplish the desired purpose.

Saying "bottom bits" was cavalier of the details; but the GPS has the location, and I'm confident it's possible to develop a location-based algorithm that could distinguish buildings reasonably well without requiring they be build on a grid. It seems like the manufacturers could improve the situation without cooperation from the field.

in reply to Deborah Pickett

similarly, back before GPS, radio altimeters, etc, if two flights were accidentally assigned to the same flight level, differences in their barometric altimeters meant they would probably miss each other even if they got quite close.

So after the tech advances, everything is right at the altitude it’s been put at and the danger of collision went up for a while.

That’s fixed now, but only because they built an entire traffic avoidance system to avoid this (TCAS)

in reply to Deborah Pickett

Since most cars have nav systems now, maybe they could finally sync turn signals.

No more watching your blinker go in and out of phase like an Orbital song.

in reply to Deborah Pickett

Huh. I was under the impression that the synchronisation was deliberate to not create visual cacophony by randomly blinking lights. The documents I have available about the rules for equipping wind turbines also say that the lights should be synchronized. But that might be a German speciality? On the other hand, the rules for aviation safety ate pretty international... 🤷‍♂️
in reply to Philipp Riederer

@ascii158 From the replies I’ve had, it does vary somewhat by jurisdiction. One document I found about Australian CASA rules mentions simultaneous flashing; you can find it somewhere in the replies.
in reply to Deborah Pickett

This would be something for the benefit of night-flying life-flight helicopters or something like that? I would have thought that most aviation would simply stay well away from any lights.
in reply to Resuna

@resuna Yes, I think medical evacuations in helicopters would feature rather frequently.
in reply to Deborah Pickett

the "Straightedge" art project a few years ago wanted to demonstrate the curvature of the earth with synchronized flashing LEDs over almost 5km straight line along the Burning Man trash fence. They also settled on cheap GPS receivers. kickstarter.com/projects/96622…
in reply to Trammell Hudson

and due to Mastodon's missing reply problem, I didn't realize that one of the artists had already mentioned it! spanner.works/@bouncinglime/11…


hi yes hello I was part of an art project that made use of this idea and I think of it every time I see groups of blinky lights ^_^

kickstarter.com/projects/96622…

we ended up building our own lights and controllers and firmware for it, mostly because they would also - about every 10 minutes - display the speed of a seismic wave thru that particular soil geology github.com/ArdentHeavyIndustri…


in reply to Deborah Pickett

I've seen this coordinated blink across large wind farms as well.

Problem with windmills is the lights are the top of the tower...not the reach of the blades.

in reply to Deborah Pickett

Interesting. I'd have thought that modern cities are so light-cluttered that there's very little chance of being able to resolve individual buildings anyway.

I've an interest in this (my last serious job related to pilot-training software, mostly relating to airlines) but no specific knowledge.

in reply to Deborah Pickett

Thanks for explaining! Reminded me of the theory of relativity where you think about the fact that due to the limitation of speed of light there is no real "same time" in different locations as the an observer sees the lights flashing differently based on his viewpoint. Doesn't matter here of course, but theoretically it would be the perfect example.
in reply to Deborah Pickett

I remember chatting about this on twitter with people a few years ago, cannot remember if you were involved for it to be the inciting thread, but I love that you've done the research
in reply to Julien Goodwin

@LapTop006 I think it did leak over to the fediverse, pretty sure you were one of said detectives.
in reply to Deborah Pickett

Marine buoys and lighthouses all have locally unique flashing and color patterns so that you can positively identify them to triangulate where you are:

"Fl G 6s" = "Flashing Green every six seconds"

in reply to Deborah Pickett

This reminds me of something @carnage4life said yesterday, about how you need to be really, really careful with your default settings and examples in docs, because they're getting copypasted right into production somewhere, way more often than not, whether you like it or not.
in reply to Deborah Pickett

shitpost
This is how: youtu.be/3V0rzBRRglU as per the 8:00:50 mark (yes, you have to skip the first 8 hours of the video)
in reply to Michel

shitpost
@michel404 It will have to remain a mystery, sorry, because I cannot drag the progress bar with enough precision to get any closer than ten minutes from the end.
in reply to Deborah Pickett

damn, now I need to see if this is true of the buildings in my city here in Singapore as well.
Unknown parent

Deborah Pickett
@CStamp What about helicopters doing emergency medical evacuations?
Unknown parent

Deborah Pickett
@CStamp … in fog or smoke, or in high winds, or if there’s a general power failure taking out a block, or c’mon, use your imagination, engage disaster movie mode. The fact that these safety systems exist in the first place means that they save lives. “Shouldn’t” isn’t an argument.
in reply to Deborah Pickett

hi, rando here via boost! I never knew this, I'm excited to look for it now! As a token of appreciation, I would like to offer another instance of blinking lights on a building you may find interesting: the story of Pitetsbkrrh npr.org/templates/story/story.…

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Unknown parent

Deborah Pickett
@emma That's a wild story. Wow.
Unknown parent

Deborah Pickett
@tomcrinstam My city has a helipad right on the river for medical emergencies.

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