"Please sign here."
"Okay. Where's the agreement it refers to?"
"Oh, we don't have that part. Just sign it."
How many times have you gone through this scenario? It's a structural trick to make you into the Bad Guy for rudely insisting on seeing, let alone having a copy, of legally-binding documents you are being asked to sign.
Today, I was that Bad Guy. I still feel rattled. And it's still not resolved. Supposedly, they will email me something.
I am really, really tired of this BS.
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R. L. Dane :debian: :openbsd:
in reply to Space Catitude 🚀 • • •Attila Kinali
in reply to Space Catitude 🚀 • • •Space Catitude 🚀
in reply to Attila Kinali • • •@attilakinali
I'm sure that would be true in a court of law.
But then I'd be in the position of *proving* that I didn't have access to the document, which is hard, given that the signature is right under a line saying that by signing, I assert that I HAVE seen the document.
They are, basically, pressuring me to lie, in a legally-binding way.
And these people aren't particular villains. This is just industry-norm behavior. I've been through one variation or another of this dozens of times.
Space Catitude 🚀
in reply to Space Catitude 🚀 • • •@attilakinali
It's a lot like all those EULAs that "nobody reads".
And occasionally, when you follow the "Terms and Conditions" link, you get a 404, because they are THAT confident than no one will press the issue.
Or, there's the PayPal agreement(s), which include-by-reference pages and pages of nested legal documents, until you get worn out (or at least, they used to -- haven't looked in ages).
Robin Adams
in reply to Space Catitude 🚀 • • •Attila Kinali
in reply to Space Catitude 🚀 • • •Uff... that would most likely fulfill the conditions of duress on this side of the big pond. Which is has a pretty hefty fine if not jail attached to it.
BTW: You can just cross out the part where it says that you had read document B and write there "not available at time of signing". That way you don't have to prove it later, it says there on the signed document.
Rich Felker
in reply to Space Catitude 🚀 • • •Petesmom
in reply to Space Catitude 🚀 • • •Isnt the better question why would any honest professional or company ask you to sign something saying you’d read an agreement they didnt have?
brokenix
in reply to Space Catitude 🚀 • • •Elena ``of Valhalla''
in reply to Space Catitude 🚀 • •@Space Catitude 🚀 here usually you do get access to the document, *after* you ask.
Except that now they have started to use so-called “digital” signatures, where they give you a tablet and a pen to sign with, on a screen that only shows the signature space of the document you're signing, so you don't have any way to see that it's the same document that they gave you to read.
Space Catitude 🚀
in reply to Elena ``of Valhalla'' • • •@valhalla
Yeah. They did that too, for the privacy notice.
Thing is, even if you read the entire document on the tablet, are you going to remember any of it to hold them accountable later?
These are clearly tricks to avoid accountability.
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