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I have been wondering one thing:

when residential #solarPanel installations produce energy that is used in the same house and not sold to the grid, is it counted in the stats about the renewable energy production of a country / grid-area-whatever? Or does it get missed because the grid never sees it? Or does it depend on the local regulations?

does anybody know?

#solarpanel
in reply to Elena ``of Valhalla''

David de Groot
David de Groot
• •
good question. I had assumed that either it was an estimate based on the capacity installed and local weather conditions, or the home systems are reporting in.
in reply to David de Groot

David de Groot
David de Groot
• •
of course now in Australia, they’re rolling out smart meters, so I presume the reporting method might become more prevalent.
in reply to David de Groot

kdehairy
kdehairy
• •
@david My smart meter does not know how much Solar panels produced. Only what is fed back to the grid. So I assume all what ia consumed in house is not counted for (no way I know of, that gives anyone this info).
@David de Groot
in reply to kdehairy

David de Groot
David de Groot
• •
@kdehairy Good point. Well I guess we're back to estimates based on installed capacity.
@kdehairy
in reply to Elena ``of Valhalla''

Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸
Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸
• •
I would think that unless it has been registered with some sort of power utility, then it won’t be counted as renewable energy generated. However, it would be indirectly counted as greater energy efficiency as the overall consumption of grid electricity per capita or per GDP would go down.
in reply to Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸

Elena ``of Valhalla''
Elena ``of Valhalla''
•

@Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸 yeah, I was thinking of the various “this year solar production has reached X% of total energy produced in country Y” headlines, and those tend to report that the total energy produced/used has also increased.

Or maybe it's just that residential energy use and production doesn't make that much of an impact, compared to industrial.

@Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸
in reply to Elena ``of Valhalla''

Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸
Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸
• •
i think it is large enough to make a difference, or at least it will be relatively soon. But you're right, I think it's being hidden right now.. better regulations/standards across countries to register personal-scale solar production is needed.
in reply to Elena ``of Valhalla''

Jenny Chase
Jenny Chase
• •
@chris usually those are estimated by either the solar industry association, or sometimes the grid operator or some government body. But no two of these estimates agree.
@Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸
in reply to Elena ``of Valhalla''

scollovati :linux:
scollovati :linux:
• •
in Italy solar panels must be connected to the home's grid meter. In fact, if there is a grid outage, unless you have a fully fledged UPS, your house will be powered off as well. So the produced energy is counted as well as the auto-consumed one, but I don't know how the overall figures are calculated.
in reply to scollovati :linux:

The Penguin of Evil
The Penguin of Evil
• •
@scollovati even then a standard smart meter will simply see reduced grid consumption, the solar that doesn't make it out of the house is not visible unless you have a generation meter in the solar path
@scollovati :linux:
in reply to The Penguin of Evil

scollovati :linux:
scollovati :linux:
• •
@etchedpixels yes if the consumption is local, but if it is shared between grid meters it will be measured (for example in Renewable Energy Communities)
@The Penguin of Evil
in reply to scollovati :linux:

Elena ``of Valhalla''
Elena ``of Valhalla''
•

@scollovati :linux: that's a safety feature (to avoid sending back energy to the grid when it's supposed not to be live, and prevent accidents to the people working on it), and it doesn't necessarily mean that the meter will actually *see* the energy that gets self-consumed.

Devices that allow self-consume even when there is a grid outages do exist and are legal in Italy, but they are an additional expense that very few people add to their systems.

(Besides, you don't really *have* to connect the panels to the grid, you are perfectly allowed to be fully off-grid, but then of course you don't get the advantage of being able to get energy from the grid when there isn't enough sun)

@scollovati :linux:
in reply to Elena ``of Valhalla''

Pare :pace: 🚲 🌞
Pare :pace: 🚲 🌞
• •

Se l'impianto non è proprio collegato alla rete (rifugio di montagna o simili) immagino sia difficile contarlo, ma certamente va stimato nelle statistiche.
In Italia però molti impianti ricevono incentivi sulla base della produzione, anche se consumata sul posto (o soprattutto, le Comunità Energetiche esistono a livello europeo), quindi va misurata.

Se guardi i dati pubblicati da Terna, contengono una misura sempre aggiornata anche per la voce auto-consumo.

dati.terna.it/generazione#bila…

I grafici relativi al bilancio energetico (elettrico) pubblicati da Terna rispetto alla giornata odierna, 5 gennaio 2025, di ora in ora. La voce "autoconsumo" è rappresentata in grigio ed ha un impatto sull'elettricità totale consumata oggi in Italia intermedio tra l'eolico e l'idroelettrico. La fonte di energia per l'autoconsumo non è specificata, sicuramente non è tutto fotovoltaico (perché presente anche in orari notturni) ma presumibilmente in parte lo è, perché il dato è maggiore durante le ore di sole. In realtà il grafico di oggi è particolarmente poco chiaro in proposito, perché contrariamente al solito ci sono state ore in cui l'Italia ha esportato elettricità invece di importarla cosa che fa sovrapporre e intrecciare le linee di questa rappresentazione, che non mette lo scambio estero in fondo, ma in mezzo al grafico.

Generazione Energia | Dati Terna Driving Energy

Accedi ai dati sulla capacità installata e sulla quantità di energia immessa in rete. Puoi consultare anche il bilancio energetico del sistema elettrico italiano.
dati.terna.it
in reply to Elena ``of Valhalla''

Andrew McMillan
Andrew McMillan
• •
there are attempts to estimate it in some countries (looking at you, Australia) but I believe it's rarely, if ever, counted. My own panels certainly don't report how much I self consume to anybody but me.
Someone in this thread mentioned that in Italy they're connected to the meter and you can't power your house from the sun during an outage, but I believe that's a separate safety related issue - if people are working on the lines during an outage they don't want any unexpected electricity zapping them. We have a special system to disconnect from the grid in an outage, but it's rare and expensive here in New Zealand.
in reply to Elena ``of Valhalla''

external quantum efficiency
external quantum efficiency
• •

I think "it depends"; there are some cities where solar is "behind the meter" and is not visible to the grid, there are some cities where the solar is "through the meter" and it does get measured. I think mine is the latter, my utility bill says how much I generated iirc.

Maybe Germany's "balkonsolar" is the former?

Then there are edge cases like off the grid houses...

in reply to Elena ``of Valhalla''

cate
cate
• •
it depends. It should be accounted. How? questionnaire, automated reporting, butI think the most common: good old estimates (imported pv, lifetime, efficiency, accounted share, useable share). On your calculator: no. Similar for electric cars (mobility vs residential). Eurostat and IAE describe desired methodology.
in reply to Elena ``of Valhalla''

The Penguin of Evil
The Penguin of Evil
• •
It seems very variable. Pakistan for example everyone does because it's almost entirely not grid tie so the non grid attached stuff matters. UK OTOH nobody seems to have a clue how much is non grid tie because it's unregistered and invisible to the government and it's probably too small to matter as a percentage.
in reply to The Penguin of Evil

The Penguin of Evil
The Penguin of Evil
• •
there is another complexity too. Increasingly people are building microgrids for groups of new houses with shared big battery storage and grid connecting the whole microgrids as one supply. That avoids the grid operators raking in money moving power next door. In those cases it's even less visible what goes on.
in reply to Elena ``of Valhalla''

Jenny Chase
Jenny Chase
• •

usually not.

Some research houses (including ours, and Ember for Pakistan where this number is large) estimate from installed capacity and typical insolation, for some purposes.

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