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Your periodical reminder that all clothing is hand made by humans, usually underpaid!
Polyester doesn't breathe and sheds microplastics when manufactured, worn and washed!
Cotton farming takes immense amounts of water and pesticides!
Viscose can be made from recycled fibres & waste cellulose, but it's a fairly toxic process!
Linen is more ecological to grow but expensive!

"But what do I wear then, Sini?"
The garments you already own, until they fall apart or someone else needs them!
#Sustainability #FastFashion #WorkersRights

in reply to Sini Tuulia

More granular data:
There are some garment making processes that can be automated most or all the way through, like knitwear and socks, but most will still be finished, assembled and/or packed by hand. Crochet is always human work.
Wool is pretty good to wear and when certified and from a good source, can be pretty sustainable if you wear it until it stops existing. This can take decades. Yarn can be recycled, mending is great!
There are fabric recycling initiatives, but the best option is to not buy it if you don't need it. Secondhand is more expensive than it used to be, but you can find older, better quality garments than the crap of today!
in reply to Sini Tuulia

I do also have a bunch of laundry tips and opinions in me, but unsure if there's an audience for that. 😂​
in reply to Sini Tuulia

Laundry tips and opinions which were requested:

Using fabric softener will make cotton feel clammy and greasy, and give it a mildewy smell. Fabric conditioning helps with staticky plastic fibres but isn't necessary for natural fibres! Just wash without. Never put it on towels, it stops their absorption powers. You can use a little bit of vinegar instead of fabric softener, it will have a mild smell when wet, dries odourless.

Line drying is less wear on clothes than dryer but live your life if you have no place to dry them!

Bedding needs to be washed super hot occasionally! Towels, too!

If your shirts smell terrible because you've been sweating into them, soak them in the sink with a cup of vinegar in room temperature water, rinse, wash normally. This kills a lot of mildew and helps break apart organic residue.

Liquid laundry detergent is silly! Just get detergent in powder form, you're spared the plastic bottles and no heavy liquids are ferried around.
Soap nuts are great if you're allergic to everything but soap nuts. They're not even nuts and are compostable!

A lot of the washing instructions are LIES. You can literally boil 100% cotton and it's fine! You'd be amazed how much dry clean only is not! Polyester and cotton will be just dandy in 60 Celsius - the manufacturers play it safe because some dyes fade in hotter temps. Cheaply made clothes may shrink, but if it's stinky, take the risk!

in reply to Sini Tuulia

also laundry nets. I had ao much trouble with ribbons, straps, and cords getting tied up in everything or fabric getting roughed up. Not a problem anymore
in reply to Esther, trebuchet enthusiast

@esther Yes! I have a mesh cage meant for washing bras which is very nice when there's a lot of ribbons, ties, etc.
If you're washing something with long ties, like an apron, you can just loosely tie them in a simple knot and that will stop them from tangling up with everything else. If you don't pull it very tight, the hot water will permeate and sanitise that tiny bit of fabric just fine.
in reply to Sini Tuulia

and clothing needs way less washing then most people think. You do not need to wash your jeans after one wear.
in reply to Lotta

@1Atalante1 Yes! And if you wear a layer under your nice top layer of clothes, you will need to wash the top layer even less. I have a legion of very threadbare short-sleeve button up shirts for this purpose, and thus barely sweat into my myriad cardigans. Spot cleaning is always an option if something gets visibly dirty, but other than that your sense of smell is a pretty good indicator of when a garment needs to be washed - provided it's not soaked through in the scented laundry detergent perfumes and dulling your nose 😶​
in reply to Sini Tuulia

I do this, but I feel like the total washing is more, if you're washing the under layer every day and the top layer say every week, instead of just washing the top layer every day. No?
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in reply to econads

@econads @1Atalante1 For me, it ends up being less laundry by weight and less wear on the things I care more about: The top layer is heavier and takes ages to dry, whereas the thin cotton short sleeved shirt is fairly insubstantial and thin.
I'll wear the undershirt for 2-5 days, depending on what I physically do and what the weather is like - and the cardigan on top for 3-10 days, depending on if I get it dirty or it starts bothering me. (Of note, I don't use "normal" deodorant with a scent, your mileage will vary!)

I can shove six undershirts in one machine load and a bunch of other stuff without issue, but only four cardigans before I have to think about what else fits. It all evens out!

in reply to econads

@econads @Lotta @Sini Tuulia it also depends on the materials: there are top layer garments made of wool that I only wash once at the end of the season (admittely I don't wear them every day, they get aired between wears, and I often have at least two washable layers under them)

things that are worn in summer tend to be washed more often, of course.

in reply to Elena ``of Valhalla''

@valhalla
Yeah but the point still stands that you're washing more total clothes that way. However @sinituulia's point about weight and convenience makes sense.

@1Atalante1

in reply to Sini Tuulia

Soda crystals (aka concentrated baking soda) work magic on stains and help keep appliances clean.
in reply to Raff Karva

@RaffKarva Baking soda is also great for getting rid of odours. You can even use it inside smelly shoes and for cleaning carpets, just sprinkle liberally, let sit, vacuum away. Granted, some cats will attempt to eat all of it because it tastes salty, but sans cats it's very viable.
in reply to Sini Tuulia

I'm kinda mad about it: the company that made a powder detergent that works, and that has no dyes/perfumes, has discontinued it. :(
in reply to ink and yarn

@emery That is deeply suboptimal. 😐​
In unhelpful but still somewhat nice news, there's a new Finnish brand of vinegar-based cleaning products and detergents. A lot of them have perfumes and a lot of additives, but it's still quite pleasing that they use a locally produced vinegar in them instead of just the usual coconut or palm oil derived soap compounds. More of this, please!
in reply to Naomi P

@gannet Tide Free & Gentle. The liquid is still available, at least.
in reply to ink and yarn

@emery That’s something. I know switching brands can be risky if you’ve got skin sensitivities, and also the one I use is pricey, but let me know if you’d like to know which unscented laundry powder I use.
in reply to Naomi P

@gannet sure! Can't hurt to be aware of it :) mostly the issue I've had with other brands is that the exercise clothes don't get de-stinkified, but generally they've been good at cleaning everything else.
in reply to ink and yarn

@emery Well, I will suggest Charlie’s Soap, which doesn’t make anyone in my family break out in a rash. It’s worked well enough for us, but we don’t have any specific exercise clothes, so I can’t speak to that.

I try to make a point of buying multiple bags when it’s on sale, but I can’t always count on that.

in reply to Sini Tuulia

Vodka is a disinfectant. One cap of vodka to 8 kg of any kind of cloth will make odorless. #Costumer #ActorsAreSmelly
in reply to Linza

@Linza I've heard of spraying a mix of vodka and water on clothes, but didn't know you could also put it in the laundry machine! I mean, obviously there's no reason why not, I just didn't know it would work. 😄​
in reply to Sini Tuulia

I heard powder detergent is not compatible with softshell jackets. Whats about that?
in reply to ttk✔️ (DO1TTK)

@ttk I haven't heard that since I don't use softshell jackets, but I would assume it's because the granules of detergent need a bunch of agitation to fully dissolve into the water. This isn't an issue with permeable fabrics, because the water washes right on through them. Softshell is fairly not-permeable so I assume the granules would just get trapped between the different layers and exist there in different concentrations and have trouble fully rinsing out.
in reply to Sini Tuulia

@ttk Yeah, it tends to leave powdery marks on the outer shell, and leaves the garment feeling kind of weird and slightly greasy. You could probably get around it by pre-dissolving your soap powder in some warm water (I've had to do this before when I needed to hand-wash a large piece of hand-dyed fabric). Possibly also doing a second rinse cycle.
in reply to Sini Tuulia

Another one is do not put printed tshirts (especially ones from custom print places like RedBubble) in a clothes dryer even if the label says you can. The actual shirt will be fine, the printing may not be after a few rounds.
in reply to Joanna Holman

@joannaholman Absolutely so, yes! The printing medium is a sort of melted on film which softens in high temperatures and sort of goops off the fibres it is attached to. If the film is very thick it will just crack and wear down in a fairly interesting way, but the thinner films (like on Redbubble) will just flake off.
If you want them to last, wash mild to moderate heat with a delicate spin cycle.
in reply to Sini Tuulia

Re: stink, it's also worth periodically cleaning your washing machine - you can get cleaners that run through most of the mechanism, though discouraging mould and mildew on seals is a constant battle and why I hate front loaders. (Most mould killers - including stuff like white vinegar - will ruin the rubber of the seals, so it's hard to completely kill. You can use cloths or paper towel to soak up any excess water after you've used the machine so it dries faster, but then you have to remember to remove them...)

I used to clean mine every 6 months, or after washing anything particularly badly soiled or stinky.

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in reply to Mre. Dartigen [maker mode]

@dartigen If you wash bedsheets and towels at 70 Celsius or more, not all the time but every now and then, that tends to cook all the mould and mildew that is currently on there. There's a bunch of minerals and residue that will accumulate as well, depending on the hardness of the water and detergents used, so I've seen it recommended to wash the washing machine itself on an empty cycle with one of those citric acid tablets. It's not super great on the gaskets, seals and the unprotected axels of the drum, but every now and then should be fine. I've seen once a year recommended, but honestly can't remember the last time did, because I wash white towels with an oxidising powder detergent that tends to melt away everything accumulating on my machine. 😂​
in reply to Sini Tuulia

Ah, yeah, I'm in a city with extremely hard water so that's probably why it's recommended here to do it more often.

I don't know if it's part of older washing machines, but I've never had a machine that had a hot setting higher than 60C. (I've also never had a brand new washing machine though.)

in reply to Mre. Dartigen [maker mode]

@dartigen Probably depends on the region. Mine goes up to 95C and this has been the case for as many machines as I can remember.
I have the vague memory that in Japan most machines only go up to 50C, to save energy with that many people using them? A native Japanese person moved to Finland and reported that for the first time ever, his laundry always smelled fresh after washing!
in reply to Sini Tuulia

Weird, I'm finding that 60C, 40C, and either 20C or 30C (and then cold) are supposedly the standard temperature options here, but in most other countries there's also a 90C option. (Definitely didn't look into whether there's a way to enable the 90C option, or why we randomly don't have it...)
in reply to Mre. Dartigen [maker mode]

@dartigen 60C is the lowest temperature that kills dust mites in bedding, which are an allergen and irritant to a lot of people while not strictly dangerous, so it's bizarre to me that not all machines go that high. I was shocked to learn the other day that there are gas powered dryers? You know, those things that just spontaneously catch fire sometimes if there's too much lint in them? Seems silly, but what do I know
in reply to Sini Tuulia

@Sini Tuulia @Mre. Dartigen [maker mode] mine also goes up to 90°C (specifically the cotton cycle goes 60° 50° 40° 30° 20° -- 90° — I suspect that they don't want you to really use the 90° too often :D )

Usually I don't use it on clothing, but I do a 90° empty cycle every now and then to clean the washing machine

in reply to Sini Tuulia

@dartigen All washing machines I’ve had in Japan haven’t heated the water at all. Sometimes there’s been a hot water pipe that you can switch to and in that case you set the temperature on the the water boiler. Great for wool, but not so energy efficient to rinse in warm water for all other clothes. They’ve all been top loaders.

Front loaders have started to be popular in Japan as well, but if you just rent a less than a year each time you can’t invest in your own washing machine.

in reply to Magnus Ahltorp

@ahltorp Front loaders usually have their own heating element - if not for having had a top loader that only went up to 60C as well, I'd wonder if the reason the 90C wash isn't available on my current machine was a limitation of the heating element.
in reply to Mre. Dartigen [maker mode]

@dartigen All washing machines I’ve owned or used in Sweden have gone up to 90 or 95, but the washing machines I’ve used in Japan had a rating of maybe 50-60, despite not having a heating element.

So in addition to being able to produce the heat, the parts in the machine have to tolerate the heat, and not melt, deform, or age quickly when subjected to almost boiling water.

in reply to Magnus Ahltorp

@ahltorp @dartigen Holy shit, that sounds absolutely bizarre! Cold water isn't enough to kill most microbial life that lives on our clothes after we wear them!
I have the vague idea that it's common to air dry laundry outside, which helps a little bit, but definitely explains that one dude's laundry gripes.
in reply to Sini Tuulia

@ahltorp Not to mention that cold water won't remove greasy residue or stains...

There seems to be the thought that the soap is enough to kill everything, but it just doesn't.

in reply to Sini Tuulia

ooo can I add to this? Every now and then soak your bedding and any clothes you wear close to the skin in lukewarm water with a good scoop of oxyclean and watch allll the gunk release. This is a costumer tip, I’ve gotten years of sweat out of shirts this way.
in reply to soil gremlin

@tefferbear We don't have that here, so I looked up what's in it: "The formulation is a combination of ingredients, the key ingredient being sodium percarbonate, sodium carbonate, surfactants and polymer."

So it's Super Soda, which definitely sounds like it works! You can use all kinds of household soda concoctions on laundry and even household cleaning.

in reply to Sini Tuulia

what is your take on 100% hand-knitted wool garments and socks? Socks is difficult because most sock wool comes with polyester because otherwise they aren't durable. Still looking for better options. Tencel for example...
in reply to Marion Grau

It's been a while since I knit or did crochet, but there's at least a couple of kinds of 100% wool that has been felted and treated in such a way that the fibres become harder, denser and more durable. "Superwash" or something, because they can also be machine washed after without shrinking. Will wear down eventually, of course, but. 🤔

I've handled some sheep wool yarn with linen, hemp, ramie, alpaca, nettle and/or silk mixed in, which apparently makes the yarn more abrasion resistant, but never worked with them! I know my mother has a wool & nettle jumper that is close to 20 years old and is in perfect condition and feels only slightly rougher and squished together than "normal" wool.

Worth mentioning is that you rarely wash woollen things, so they shed a lot less microplastics into the ecosystem even if there is polyester or acrylic in them!

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in reply to Sini Tuulia

thank you for these! Been preaching most of these myself. Question though, if you don't mind—I recently switched from powder detergent to liquid because I read powder is harder on the fabrics. Is this bullshit? I do refill a glass bottle with bulk detergent, so reduced waste, but of course that bulk box is still plenty of plastic :(
in reply to Michael Klepacki :kare_bomb:

@kleypack Short answer, it can be, but shouldn't significantly be.

Long answer: Liquid detergent for white laundry usually only contains optical brighteners, which is blue pigment to make the white fabric look less yellowed. Powder detergent for whites contains an oxidiser, which gradually physically bleaches the fabric back to a crisp white. This does oxidise the fabric a little bit. 😄​ Which will damage it somewhat! But on the other hand it also sanitises it as plenty of microbes do not enjoy being minutely bleached. The laundry does smell fresher and I haven't noticed any wear on any of my stuff.
Powder detergent for coloured laundry does not contain the whitening agent. The ingredients themselves vary across them, but it's sodium laureth sulfate, soap and enzymatic cleaners for the most part, in both liquid and powder.

I feel like I have to use not even half of the recommended dose of powder versus the full amount of liquid for the laundry to *feel* clean. Your mileage may vary!

in reply to Sini Tuulia

ah this is amazing, thank you! I only used mixed detergent anyway, have never bought the detergent just for whites (too much of my whites are more ecru or have other colors as well). Also totally agree about the amount needed, the poweder goes a long way.

Guess I can safely go back to powder. Appreciate the thorough answer! 😊

in reply to Michael Klepacki :kare_bomb:

@kleypack You're very welcome! I think about laundry a lot and it's nice my knowledge can be of use!
in reply to Sini Tuulia

I was wondering just the other day if it is useful to separate out synthetic fibre clothing (mostly socks and undergarments, some T-shirts) and wash them separately from cottons. So I might do 2 laundry loads of cottons and one load of polyester-containing fabrics per week instead of 3 mixed loads per week. It seems that that would lead to less microplastic shedding, but I would appreciate your thinking on this.
in reply to Katherine W

@FiddleSix I'm genuinely glad you asked! It's most to do with the water temperature and the amount of agitation needed.

Cotton in general washes better when the water is hot and when there's a bunch of agitation, so a longer program. (On my machine the suggested program is 2h 20min at 60C, for example.) This is fine. Spin cycle it as harsh as you want to, too, as a plant fibre it soaks up a lot of liquid and dries slowly.

But when you wash synthetics, often containing elasthane and spandex etc, those do degrade very fast when the water is hot and there is a lot of agitation. Hot and long also leads to more microplastic shedding, I'm fairly sure! You may also want to use a different detergent for the two, or different amounts. They also dry faster, so less spinning required, less wear on the clothing and washing machine, and less energy expended.

in reply to Sini Tuulia

Any tips for getting fabric softener out of hand-me-down synthetics?
in reply to Willow, Venus Pirate 🏳️‍⚧️

@Willow Oh yes, it's basically my nemesis. It depends on how much is on there, and what it smells like, sometimes the only thing that works is washing it 5-12 times and suffering.

But! I've found that Marseille soap works pretty well. (It's a type of traditional olive oil based block soap. As soap as you can get, really. I assume Castile soap works similarly.)
First I'll reaaaaaaally lather the garments in the sink with the soap and some comfortably warm water, mostly rinse that off, lather again, rinse it again... You can sort of tell when gunk stops coming off, when it feels less slippery, or the smell changes?
Then you just need to rinse it really really well, because bar soap isn't super good inside a washing machine in large quantities, though a little doesn't hurt. Put in like double the detergent you'd usually use, wash normally.
If that didn't do it, or it feels fine but smells bad, wash it with a cup of table vinegar, or 3 tablespoons of white vinegar.

in reply to Sini Tuulia

I can confirm that fabric conditioner is a con. I haven't used it for years, and the clothes come out just fine. Our towels are like sandpaper, because I used to use fabric conditioner on them, but clothes we bought since I stopped using fabric conditioner are absolutely okay without it.

Bedclothes really want to be washed at 60°C because it kills house dust mite. Underwear needs 60°C because it kills germs. I've done that for years, for Helen's undies as well as mine, ignoring the care labels, and it's been fine.

in reply to ND Dev

@nddev Yes! To both dust mites and bacteria. But also the higher temperatures kill the yeasts from human skin, which are generally not harmful or rot the fabrics, but can transfer between people using the same laundry: everybody can get itchy feet if somebody has cursed socks.

Some people are also deeply allergic to fabric softener and there's residue flaking off of people wearing conditioned clothing that gets on everything as a very fine dust, not to mention the VOCs that get breathed in. Please everybody stop using fabric conditioner!

in reply to Sini Tuulia

any tips on what to do when you leave it a bit too long in the machine and it starts to smell?
in reply to eena meena me

@meena Yes!
The smell is either mildew and/or bacteria, both of which thrive on the wet human matter left on the textiles and the fibres themselves.
Depending on how long it's been and how much has grown, you might be able to get away with putting it to air out and dry in bright sunlight: UV radiation kills a lot of microbes and ozone breaks apart the organic compounds that produce the smell.

If it's been a *while* or the laundry has been left wet and smelly enough times for it to permeate the seams etc., the simplest option is to wash it very hot - 60C and up, preferably 70C. (140F to 158F)
These temps kill most microbial life. Though bacteria starts going at lower temperatures mildew, mould, yeasts take hotter. The detergent washes the broken down organic compounds away.

If it can't be washed hot, there's always acid or alkaline/base! Soaking it in a white vinegar solution (a cup per bucket) or with soda or borax (half a cup in a bucket? Somebody else might know). I just use vinegar since it's technically safe to eat. 😄​
You can also just pour two cups of table vinegar in the washing machine and wash it all cold if you don't want to mess around with a bucket or the sink. And then wash it another time with normal temperature and detergent.

in reply to Sini Tuulia

@meena (Oh, worth mentioning: sometimes the dyes of clothing will run if you give them the acid/alkali soak. Table salt or sea salt (not the mineral kind that is better for heart health) fixes it back on again, so it doesn't continue fading. I've met this issue exactly once all my life, but there we are.)
in reply to Sini Tuulia

we wash everything at 40°C, everything hygiene-related (bedsheets, underwear, towels, etc.) at 60°C. I was despairing over "30°C gentle machine wash, no tumble dry, careful dry cleaning only" clothes just earlier today, too: 97% cotton, 3% elasthane chinos that were labelled as 30°C, no tumble drying, and loads of them in all sorts of colours, even "basically the natural colour of cotton" off-white.

I had half a mind to buy them, throw them in at 40°C and tumble dry, and see what comes out, but I couldn't afford sinking that money down the drain if it does damage them.

in reply to Mx Amber Alex

@amberage Yeaaaaah, my bullshit senses are tingling with the "30C only" label on plant fibres at the best of times. At the very least it should take 40C without issue! There's no good reason why cotton (+elasthane) shouldn't withstand 60C! If they cut corners and didn't prewash and thus pre-shrink the fabric, it can shrink, but this really shouldn't be an issue.

I read somewhere that some percentage of human yeasts survive the 40C wash and may give you foot problems, so you should probably chuck socks into the hotter wash sometimes, too. 🤔

in reply to Sini Tuulia

socks count towards underwear for me tbh, I totally forgot to mention them separately 🙈
in reply to Sini Tuulia

Conducting research into my wife's eczema led us to discover that all liquid detergent contains antifungal additives, especially methylchloroisothiazolinone. Big fat no to that from persons with eczema-like skin conditions. So we find (mostly) fragrance free powder and forgo softener agents.
Modern HE washers don't dissolve the powder sufficiently so we dissolve in warm water before adding laundry.
in reply to 4d3fect

@4d3fect Oh yes, makes sense! I knew there had to be some compound to make the liquid shelf stable for years on end, so the antifungal makes sense even if it's been so long I had no memory of seeing one on the bottle.

I buy a cheap generic fragrance free powder that has been approved by the Finnish Allergy & Asthma Association so it's pretty stripped down of anything that doesn't need to be there! Dissolving in warm water is probably a good step, I tend to administer it straight onto the drum because it tends to gum up the dispenser thingy, and the hot water will hit it right away anyway.

in reply to Sini Tuulia

Curiously here (USA) it's not listed in the ingredients. (GRAS, I suppose) That's what took us so long to figure out it's a universal additive.
in reply to 4d3fect

@4d3fect That's just categorically silly, if it's IN the thing it needs to be listed in the ingredients! But the US manufacturing industry is pretty allergic to regulations and sense, so here we are I guess.
in reply to Sini Tuulia

Disappointing is the nicest word I can summon to describe that situation
in reply to Sini Tuulia

how do I get sweat stains out of pillow cases and shirt underarms?
in reply to Jenny Fx

@urbanfoxe You might not, unless they're white! The slight acidity, oiliness and saltiness of sweat tends to create stains in coloured fabric by changing the actual composition or amount of dye in the fabric, and it's fairly impossible to change it back...
If on white fabric, the yellowing is due to all the various things and you can bleach it out with some effort. 🤔 A small bottle of stain remover was less anxiety inducing to handle than a big bottle of bleach, though.

When using deodorant with aluminium the salts tend to react with the dyes and oxidise, I once got weird dark grey green stains on a light blue shirt! Never came off, no matter what I did.

in reply to Sini Tuulia

which reminds me, i need to learn some knitwear darning
in reply to Sini Tuulia

Probably a lot more garment making processes could be automated, but underpaid labour is cheaper
in reply to sabik

@sabik It's definitely cheaper, but also making fitted clothing out of floppy and not-uniform materials, joined with other floppy and not uniform material, is pretty hard to automate unless you come up with a series of robots with very dextrous digits with sensory apparatus for texture, shrink, elasticity and weight. Honestly the optical sensors to track where each piece and edge is would be the easiest part.
Funnily enough you can 3D-print weird garments (I doubt they're comfy), and programmable knitting machines have been a thing for centuries! But sewing is VERY complicated to do well.
in reply to Sini Tuulia

Much like knitting machines keep hold of each stitch separately, a sewing robot would probably keep hold of each piece of the fabric throughout, I suspect
in reply to Sini Tuulia

I have tops and jeans from 20+ years ago that, other than being a bit faded, are made of better quality material than today's equivalent. I wear things until they wear out, which seems to take less time the newer the garment! I love charity shops for second hand clothes!
in reply to Helen LH

@Research_FTW Yes, the quality of just generic things has gone really downhill. Make it as cheap and as fast as possible, it doesn't matter if it doesn't last because all you want to do is sell even more of the same anyway. It's a race to the bottom and it makes me furious!

(Even the "luxury" options are nearly as bad, it's the same stuff with a more expensive label. Certifications for Fair Trade, union work or organic materials and Öko-Tex for non-toxic materials do help discerning when the manufacturers gave half a shit, but yeah.)

in reply to Sini Tuulia

Wool is great! There are quite a few niche producers in Australia and New Zealand making good quality, machine washable, sustainable wool garments, including underwear. New Zealanders specialise in blended merino and possum wool garments. Lightweight but incredibly warm, and low pilling. (Possums are a feral species in New Zealand.)

#recycle #rewear #repair #resell

in reply to Sini Tuulia

Are you saying I should make my own kevlar jacket by hand?
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in reply to Samuel Hautamäki

@Samuel Hautamäki I know of a place that sells kevlar reinforced fabric to end consumers, so I think that *is* actually an option.

the fabric is quite expensive, and they also sell kevlar-specific tools (mostly for cutting), and I believe they are really needed, which would add to the expense, so I'm quite sure it would be significantly more expensive than buying one, and not just because the bought one is made by underpaid labour (also that, but a lot is also economy of scale).

I believe it's probably also significantly harder than making a regular jacket, especially a non-tailored one, so it would take significant time and skill.

But it is an option, if one wants and enjoys it.

in reply to Samuel Hautamäki

@Samuel Hautamäki lol :D

https://www.extremtextil.de/

and this is the kevlar section

https://www.extremtextil.de/en/fabrics/heat-and-cutting-protection/kevlar.html

it may be a dangerous shop :D

(I've never bought the kevlar, but I've bought other technical fabric and various components and haberdashery from them)

in reply to Sini Tuulia

I stopped buying new clothes years ago.

I learned that there is a huge number of people who buy really good (and expensive) clothes, wear them once and sell on eBay.

I got a Goretex Pro (I know it’s not sustainable but please read on) jacket designed for the most extreme weather on earth, RRP £480, I got it for £40.

Because it’s a REALLY good product, I’ve had it now for 5 years and it still looks new. I am certain it will last me another decade if not longer.

in reply to Raff Karva

I've made mine for a while now, and have reached a point where I have enough until a lot of it falls apart. 😄​ Good for the environment, bad for making cool and informative sewing posts online!

You can find all kinds of treasures in the second hand sphere, it might take a lot of time and luck, but there's Good Shit on there. Using a garment that has already been made is always for the better, at least until we can make recycling them profitable - it's already possible but because it doesn't make money and isn't mandated, the industry doesn't. If we don't wear it, it ends up in landfill or nature and slowly breaks apart there. Yay capitalism. 🙃

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in reply to Sini Tuulia

We make our own knitted sweaters but that’s where our skill ends. Plus it takes a lot of time. It’s very satisfying though.
in reply to Raff Karva

@RaffKarva Yeah. It's a pretty deep skill, sewing, and we should pay the people who do it more, it would be unreasonable to expect everybody to learn how to do it. Knitting is such a good skill, too! I used to love crochet, now I have a cat that will NOT leave yarn alone and it's dangerous to have in the flat!
in reply to Raff Karva

Saying that, I also build my own furniture, grow my own food, and as a skilled engineer, I repair every piece of equipment rather than replace (until I can’t repair any more).

Unfortunately, enshitification means that humanity stopped producing good quality items that can be repaired, instead creating planned obsolescence, forcing repeat purchases of the same product, which could have easily been designed to last a lifetime but wasn’t due to capitalism and greed.

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in reply to Raff Karva

@RaffKarva I love that the Right To Repair movement is making headway in the EU but it's too little and too late for a lot of created and accumulated trash. I've been happy to see even modular laptops and smartphones being made! But because worker's aren't paid enough anywhere, they can't afford the nice and sensibly made more durable things even if they exist. (Citing the Vimes Boot Theory, once again.)

A lot of people don't even know there are other options to spending on trash! I suppose the best we can do is yell about it so people find out.

in reply to Sini Tuulia

to be honest, I find that the involvement of humans is a net positive to the process; I don't want them to be underpaid, tho.
in reply to pgcd

@pgcd Humans are pretty great and sewing is a skill and an art! I'd love for all the skilled (and unskilled) humans to get compensated for their work, and for that work to be meaningful and long-lasting because they get to make durable stuff well!
@pgcd
in reply to Sini Tuulia

can we make repairing clothes normal again?

There's no one stopping us. #RightToRepair for clothing is fairly easy.

in reply to Liminal witch 🧙‍♀️ Sarah

@xgebi I'm happy to report that there's a pretty significant #Mending culture that is on the rise. And creative and joyful #VisibleMending often elevates it to an art form. We used to fix our clothes instead of getting rid of them, all we need to do is appreciate everything that goes into them!
in reply to Sini Tuulia

@xgebi this is such a great thread. And yes: where if not here on masto?
Thanks for all the insights.

#mending related: a sticker i felt the urge to create (pro mending and repairing).

in reply to Sini Tuulia

@xgebi How bad/good is hemp? My impression was that it was significantly better for the soil (overall) than cotton but I dunno about how bad it is to harvest & turn into fiber.

I heard that hemp jeans tend to last longer than cotton, but don't know how true that is.

in reply to masukomi

@masukomi Hemp is much more ecological to grow than cotton, which isn't a very high bar but there it is! The plant also has other uses, so there's some synergy with other production.
There's viscose made from hemp cellulose, because it's a pretty plant-agnostic process: put cellulose in, out comes viscose.

I think when used "raw" hemp is a slightly rough but very durable fabric, similar to linen? I've read about it being used for yukata etc.
I've mostly handled hemp viscose, and blends, so I don't know what it's like on its own as fabric. Most ropes used to be hemp, so the fibre has been use for millennia, but the War On Drugs made farming even the non-entertaining kind much more difficult in the US. But it will grow pretty much anywhere, as far as I remember!

in reply to Sini Tuulia

@masukomi ...Pretty much all dyeing and processing of plant fibres is bad in one way or the other. Linen and wool take to natural dyes readily and neither process needs very rough chemicals in great quantity, though they produce graywater with all the washing and retting!
in reply to masukomi

@masukomi I may be misremembering, but that's what my brain tells me! Go forth with at least some knowledge!
in reply to Sini Tuulia

@Sini Tuulia @masukomi I think that chemical retting of linen and other baste fibers is also pretty bad, and of course it's faster, easier and cheaper than the other alternatives (dew and water).

I thought that most commercial linen these days was chemically retted, but a quick internet search gives hopes that it's not necessarily so, which is always nice to find out.

in reply to Sini Tuulia

@Sini Tuulia @masukomi I don't remember where I've read that most archeological fiber remains that are listed as linen have a good chance to be another bast fiber, including hemp or nettle because they look very similar and nobody bothers doing the detailed tests for the difference.

I think in recent times (say 1800s or early 1900 :D ) hemp was more likely to be used for coarse products and linen for finer ones, but I'm not sure whether it was related to some intrinsic quality.

My mother still has a few vintage cotton/hemp towels and they don't feel significantly different from cotton/linen.

in reply to Elena ``of Valhalla''

I had the vague idea that hemp just grew taller than linen/flax, which might make for more durable materials as the individual fibres were longer to begin with? 🤔
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in reply to Liminal witch 🧙‍♀️ Sarah

y'all don't constantly repair?

The only clothes I've ever thrown away are a uniform that split in fucking halves and a pair of socks cos 1 had a hole the size of my heel

in reply to Amethyst witch lunya :neocat_floof_flag_trans:

@sleepybisexual @xgebi I go even so far to make shirts and skirts out of bedsheets that have cat claw holes or tears in them, because I can go around them when cutting the pieces out. 😄​ The mending on the sheets feels bad when slept on, but they're fairly good for clothing!
in reply to Amethyst witch lunya :neocat_floof_flag_trans:

@sleepybisexual I keep making 18th century petticoats out of old bedding and am wearing one as a house skirt even as I type this. 😄​ They're just rectangles pleated onto waist ties and really very comfy! The one I'm wearing is a decades old half of a duvet cover!

(Image is an older gif of me wearing it in my living room.)

in reply to Sini Tuulia

don’t forget that whole garment knitting is one practical way out of this mess. 😎
in reply to TransitBiker

@TransitBiker The first thing I imagined was one of those old-timey overalls with buttons in the front. 😂​ Practical, comfy, perhaps not the visual choice one would go for first!
in reply to Sini Tuulia

that is really hilarious! Whole garment knitting is basically the fabric version of 3-D printing. One thread or bundle of threads is used to to create the entire garment, which, at the end of its life, can be unraveled completely in sections to be reused in other things. There are two methods to do this. One involves sewing a single seam to close the garment. The other one is completely seamless. Largest benefits are few if any sweatshop workers & cradle to cradle lifecycle.
in reply to Dilman Dila

@dilmandila Honestly I'm so mad about all the other plant species that we could be using for clothes but that weren't as easy to do colonialism with, and thus fell out of common use. 😶​ Ramie, hemp, bamboo and linen are just the most common ones I remember off the top of my head!
in reply to Sini Tuulia

There are a lot of movements to revive these, at least I know of several in Uganda trying to make bark cloth fashionable.
in reply to Dilman Dila

@dilmandila
"Across the tropics, people worked out long ago how to transform fig tree bark into comfortable cloth—the practice could even predate weaving." Neat, hadn't heard of it.

"The colonial rulers had little use for the industry. They compelled farmers to produce cotton for English mills instead, stopped the practice of paying taxes in barkcloth, and banned traditional religion.'" of course. Of fucking course!

(source Atlas Obscura article)

in reply to Sini Tuulia

@dilmandila I remember ramie, had a piece of clothing with ramie a long time ago, the texture is so nice (having sensory issues with clothing, that means a lot to me)
in reply to movation

@movation I remember one editor telling me to change bark cloth for something like leather in a short story set in the far future. I did, because I was just starting out and didn't know how to fight for my ideas, but I keep putting bark cloth in the future as the dominant material whenever I get the chance. Someone saw this in my film and they said "oh, so even in the future Africans are backward?"

I guess colonialism did a good job!

in reply to Dilman Dila

@dilmandila @movation Just because something has been done for a long time doesn't mean it's inferior! Often the opposite! Colonialism go in the bin, please. 😂​

But yeah. Ramie is lovely to work with and feels quite nice. It has slightly different properties than cotton or linen, so somebody not familiar with it might be puzzled by the things it does, but it is very very comfortable to wear when it's nice quality.

in reply to Sini Tuulia

simply walking around naked could solve many problems 😄
in reply to BjoernAusGE

@bjoern Maybe not that feasible in -30C weather, nor the best if you lack the melanin to survive a lot of UV radiation!
in reply to Sini Tuulia

you are correct, but on the other hand it means that it would be a solution for the vast majority of people which do not life in temperature critical areas or have a skin which can withstand UV Radiation with no issues. So if you would only have to produce clothing for 10% of the world population that would be a true advantage.
in reply to BjoernAusGE

@bjoern Fully ignoring the cultural and social significance of dress, we ALREADY produce clothing for a very small group of people.

Most of the manufactured clothing is made in countries where it's easier to skirt all labour and safety regulations (if they exist), and is sold to the West, where a very small margin of all the people on Earth buy it by the truckloads, wear it rarely if ever, and then donate it to "charity" when it's time for another closet purge, or they age or change size - whereupon it often gets shipped way back across the world and piles up by the bales in Africa et al where it makes financial sense to sort through it, and then gets carted to rot in a desert or landfill if it doesn't get picked up by anyone because it's such fundamentally poor quality.

In short, we should stop producing shit that is only good for the landfill in the end, and fast fashion needs to go die in a bin! Making regular quality clothes with moderation, to last, and out of reasonable local materials is how humans used to do it!

in reply to Sini Tuulia

I'm not gonna lie, the near impossibility of finding pants that last more than a year or two and are actually comfortable is one of the big things pushing me towards wearing more skirts and other femme-ier bottoms.
in reply to kechpaja

@kechpaja Jeans used to be a working person's garment that would last for decades (or years of hard work) but now they're made of paper and elasticised in such a way that the material disintegrates when you properly wash it enough. I used to find some success with different ripstop-fabric cargo pants, but that's a very specific look and not for everybody!

I mostly wear skirts these days because they're much easier to make than trousers and my knees hate extra pressure on the kneecap. 😄​

in reply to Sini Tuulia

@kechpaja To be fair, men’s jeans are still often 100% cotton, not elastic, and can last for years and years. 👍 (Mine are Levi’s; don’t know about other brands.)
in reply to Sini Tuulia

I have a beautiful Sherpa sweater from Nepal. And they make them by shearing some kind yak and their hair grows back FAST. And these Nepali women make this wonderfully warm and plush sweaters. I've had it for almost 20 years. Throw it in some.oxiclean and it's just as plush and clean as the day it arrived. And they've been doing that for millenia. So don't tell me polyester is better.
in reply to Praetor

@praetor There are so many more domesticated animals to make yarn from than just sheep! A well made woollen thing will last a very long time, even if it takes a lot more resources to grow, process and make than something like polyester. And when you're done with the woollen thing, it will fully disappear instead of haunting a landfill for possibly centuries.
But polyester is cheap and most people don't know any better, so here we are.
in reply to Sini Tuulia

Well, you can have your polyester Under Amour. Because during the worst winter in #texas I was pretty cozy in my sherpa sweater and those boy in Under Amour weren't.
in reply to Sini Tuulia

What about hemp clothing?

I try to thrift most of my clothes since buying new at least somewhat sustainable stuff is expensive but that hinges very much on things being available in my size, I can only assume this issue is aggravated for people who have even more have trouble finding clothes in their size even when not buying second-hand.

in reply to krumminell energi

@krummi Yeah, I originally started sewing by modifying thrifted clothes and then making them from scratch because I'm shaped so that it's impossible to find things that fit. So I know how rough it can be if you're even slightly different from the "standard human" the manufacturers pretend exists! Every penny to an inclusive shape, size and/or style clothing line means more will get made, but they tend to be expensive in comparison.

I replied to someone about hemp and would be repeating most of it, so here's a link to that reply. 😄​ https://eldritch.cafe/@sinituulia/112117144341322568


@masukomi Hemp is much more ecological to grow than cotton, which isn't a very high bar but there it is! The plant also has other uses, so there's some synergy with other production.
There's viscose made from hemp cellulose, because it's a pretty plant-agnostic process: put cellulose in, out comes viscose.

I think when used "raw" hemp is a slightly rough but very durable fabric, similar to linen? I've read about it being used for yukata etc.
I've mostly handled hemp viscose, and blends, so I don't know what it's like on its own as fabric. Most ropes used to be hemp, so the fibre has been use for millennia, but the War On Drugs made farming even the non-entertaining kind much more difficult in the US. But it will grow pretty much anywhere, as far as I remember!


in reply to Sini Tuulia

Haha same, I'm not so great at sewing but I do occasionally modify clothes I thrift, mostly to make sleeves or pant legs shorter (there are other modifications that could be made but spoons are a bit limited and I don't have a machine).

Really wish to see more variety in sizes in the future for all shapes of bodies so that having sustainable clothes that fit doesn't hinge on personal crafting skills or money for additional modifications!

Also thanks for the link, I had missed that reply! And thanks for the overall very informative thread, another thing that immediately came to my mind was the fake-"sustainable" bamboo clothes that are seemingly everywhere now too but are really just viscose in disguise.

Do you have any info/thoughts on lyocell and similar materials?

in reply to krumminell energi

@krummi You're welcome, it was pretty deep in the thread! If you missed it, @valhalla replied with additional hemp thoughts below it - I'll probably add more thoughts tomorrow but it's late and am out of spoons. 😅​

It's been a bit, but we did go through all the different man-made fibres at school materials class, like cupro, modal, rayon, Tencel... Most of them are a trade name for the chemical bath and process they use when making viscose, Lyocell as a product name wasn't around back then. They all have slight differences and some of them are super bad to produce, most are quite nice to wear and drape.
Lyocell is supposed to be more green, but my personal experience of it is that it feels like nice cotton but doesn't hold up to washing and cat claws like cotton! Can be made from recycled fibres though, so there's that.

in reply to Sini Tuulia

No worries and take your time, conserving spoons is important! 🥄

Either way thanks for your insights! I was somehow under the impression that lyocell was less toxic to produce than viscose but maybe that was just marketing information, I should probably research more.

Also, including information on how fabric feels is super valuable for texture-sensitive folks. I find that softness is an increasingly important criterion for me as I get older, sadly some knitted stuff from pure wool has to be ruled out because it feels too scratchy on my skin without extra layers (which isn't always possible due to easily feeling too warm :sadparty: ).

in reply to krumminell energi

@krummi Lyocell is less toxic than viscose but this is also not a very high bar! I think there's been new process patents floating around where they take in an reuse the chemicals and the water in a closed loop... But because it's expensive to retrofit existing factories, it's not always done, and there's generally very little oversight. Having an Oeko-Tex label (Öko-Tex 100, also) on it means it's AT LEAST had the eyes of somebody on it at some point.

Half of sewing for me is Fabric Sense, sensory information is extremely important! I've handled some bamboo viscose knits that are the softest thing I've ever touched, even though they're not the most durable option out there.

in reply to Sini Tuulia

I’ve been following Avery Trufelman for a long while, and her newsletter on fashion is great. This one may interest you:

Radical acceptance an thrifting, Articles of Interest > https://articlesofinterest.substack.com/p/what-to-do-with-all-the-clothes

in reply to Sini Tuulia

I got a Russel Athletic hoody on my 12th birthday and wore it until I was 38. I regretfully let it go after doing a Hell & Back in it, when it was soaked in cow dung and rat piss.

Point being: clothes *will* last if give them a chance. Use a tailor or repair service to help keep them together.

in reply to James

@chongliss I love that there are Right To Repair laws and repair cafes popping up! People do care, they just might not know what to do. But if they're taking their temperamental vacuum cleaner for a tune-up and notice that the cafe also does textile repairs? They're gonna come back with a bag of clothes they love and don't want to throw away. There used to be a tailor or seamstress on every block, according to some older people.

There are people who think it's easier to just buy a new shirt instead of sewing a button back on, but I hope more people realise how much effort and resources that new shirt was!

in reply to Sini Tuulia

I've been wearing stuff until it falls apart since… always, but replacing it feels shittier every year: style/cut/colour combinations, and everything else just makes me not wanna buy new clothes anyway
in reply to Sini Tuulia

Absolutely! And, when you do buy clothes, find a way to buy second-hand.
in reply to Sini Tuulia

Then, there is hemp 😁

Growing hemp cleans the soil, if the garment is no longer usable, drop it in a field and it adds nourishments...

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in reply to Just Bob 🇺🇲♒🐧

@Just Bob 🇺🇲♒🐧 @Sini Tuulia hemp has been mentioned in the thread already and it's basically like linen: better than cotton, which is a low bar, but processing it into fiber can be problematic, the dyeing process can be not great, it's going to be more expensive, and unless it's socks or another form of one piece knit there are still all of the problems with workers exploitation.
in reply to Elena ``of Valhalla''

@valhalla @bob Yes, we should definitely be growing more hemp and less cotton, hemp is a pretty good plant... But it's not going to magically fix the exploitative, resource intensive and wasteful nature of the garment industry of the present day!

The simplest and cheapest solution is just wearing the things that already exist for longer. This doesn't benefit the shareholders, but that's an added bonus. 😄​

in reply to Sini Tuulia

Mä ostan niin harvoin uusia vaatteita. Mulla on nyt pari T-paitaa, joissa on muutama reikä, mutta en vielä heitä ne roskiin, odotan ja kun reikiä on liian paljon, heitän ne roskiin ja ostan uusia.
in reply to Sini Tuulia

Shopping thrift also saves existing clothes from a landfill, if you can find the right size/shape.

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