Your periodical reminder that all clothing is hand made by humans, usually underpaid!
Polyester doesn't breathe and sheds microplastics when manufactured, worn and washed!
Cotton farming takes immense amounts of water and pesticides!
Viscose can be made from recycled fibres & waste cellulose, but it's a fairly toxic process!
Linen is more ecological to grow but expensive!
"But what do I wear then, Sini?"
The garments you already own, until they fall apart or someone else needs them!
#Sustainability #FastFashion #WorkersRights
reshared this
Sini Tuulia
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •There are some garment making processes that can be automated most or all the way through, like knitwear and socks, but most will still be finished, assembled and/or packed by hand. Crochet is always human work.
Wool is pretty good to wear and when certified and from a good source, can be pretty sustainable if you wear it until it stops existing. This can take decades. Yarn can be recycled, mending is great!
There are fabric recycling initiatives, but the best option is to not buy it if you don't need it. Secondhand is more expensive than it used to be, but you can find older, better quality garments than the crap of today!
reshared this
Lauma Pret 🕸️, Elena ``of Valhalla'' e Mre. Dartigen [maker mode] reshared this.
Sini Tuulia
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •Punkt 🏳️⚧️
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •Elena ``of Valhalla'' likes this.
Sini Tuulia
in reply to Punkt 🏳️⚧️ • • •Elena ``of Valhalla''
in reply to Sini Tuulia • •Sini Tuulia
in reply to Elena ``of Valhalla'' • • •Elena ``of Valhalla'' likes this.
JoeP
in reply to Elena ``of Valhalla'' • • •@sinituulia @punktrock
Sini Tuulia
in reply to JoeP • • •JoeP
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •Aral Balkan
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •Sini Tuulia
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •Laundry tips and opinions which were requested:
Using fabric softener will make cotton feel clammy and greasy, and give it a mildewy smell. Fabric conditioning helps with staticky plastic fibres but isn't necessary for natural fibres! Just wash without. Never put it on towels, it stops their absorption powers. You can use a little bit of vinegar instead of fabric softener, it will have a mild smell when wet, dries odourless.
Line drying is less wear on clothes than dryer but live your life if you have no place to dry them!
Bedding needs to be washed super hot occasionally! Towels, too!
If your shirts smell terrible because you've been sweating into them, soak them in the sink with a cup of vinegar in room temperature water, rinse, wash normally. This kills a lot of mildew and helps break apart organic residue.
Liquid laundry detergent is silly! Just get detergent in powder form, you're spared the plastic bottles and no heavy liquids are ferried around.
Soap nuts are great if you're allergic to everything but soap nuts. They're not even nuts and are compostable!
A lot of the washing instructions are LIES. You can literally boil 100% cotton and it's fine! You'd be amazed how much dry clean only is not! Polyester and cotton will be just dandy in 60 Celsius - the manufacturers play it safe because some dyes fade in hotter temps. Cheaply made clothes may shrink, but if it's stinky, take the risk!
Elena ``of Valhalla'' likes this.
Mre. Dartigen [maker mode] reshared this.
Esther, trebuchet enthusiast
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •Sini Tuulia
in reply to Esther, trebuchet enthusiast • • •If you're washing something with long ties, like an apron, you can just loosely tie them in a simple knot and that will stop them from tangling up with everything else. If you don't pull it very tight, the hot water will permeate and sanitise that tiny bit of fabric just fine.
Lotta
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •Elena ``of Valhalla'' likes this.
Sini Tuulia
in reply to Lotta • • •econads
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •Sini Tuulia
in reply to econads • • •@econads @1Atalante1 For me, it ends up being less laundry by weight and less wear on the things I care more about: The top layer is heavier and takes ages to dry, whereas the thin cotton short sleeved shirt is fairly insubstantial and thin.
I'll wear the undershirt for 2-5 days, depending on what I physically do and what the weather is like - and the cardigan on top for 3-10 days, depending on if I get it dirty or it starts bothering me. (Of note, I don't use "normal" deodorant with a scent, your mileage will vary!)
I can shove six undershirts in one machine load and a bunch of other stuff without issue, but only four cardigans before I have to think about what else fits. It all evens out!
econads
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •Elena ``of Valhalla''
in reply to econads • •@econads @Lotta @Sini Tuulia it also depends on the materials: there are top layer garments made of wool that I only wash once at the end of the season (admittely I don't wear them every day, they get aired between wears, and I often have at least two washable layers under them)
things that are worn in summer tend to be washed more often, of course.
econads
in reply to Elena ``of Valhalla'' • • •@valhalla
Yeah but the point still stands that you're washing more total clothes that way. However @sinituulia's point about weight and convenience makes sense.
@1Atalante1
Raff Karva
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •Sini Tuulia
in reply to Raff Karva • • •ink and yarn
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •Sini Tuulia
in reply to ink and yarn • • •In unhelpful but still somewhat nice news, there's a new Finnish brand of vinegar-based cleaning products and detergents. A lot of them have perfumes and a lot of additives, but it's still quite pleasing that they use a locally produced vinegar in them instead of just the usual coconut or palm oil derived soap compounds. More of this, please!
Naomi P
in reply to ink and yarn • • •ink and yarn
in reply to Naomi P • • •Naomi P
in reply to ink and yarn • • •ink and yarn
in reply to Naomi P • • •Naomi P
in reply to ink and yarn • • •@emery Well, I will suggest Charlie’s Soap, which doesn’t make anyone in my family break out in a rash. It’s worked well enough for us, but we don’t have any specific exercise clothes, so I can’t speak to that.
I try to make a point of buying multiple bags when it’s on sale, but I can’t always count on that.
Linza
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •Sini Tuulia
in reply to Linza • • •ttk✔️ (DO1TTK)
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •Sini Tuulia
in reply to ttk✔️ (DO1TTK) • • •Mre. Dartigen [maker mode]
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •Joanna Holman
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •Sini Tuulia
in reply to Joanna Holman • • •If you want them to last, wash mild to moderate heat with a delicate spin cycle.
Mre. Dartigen [maker mode]
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •Re: stink, it's also worth periodically cleaning your washing machine - you can get cleaners that run through most of the mechanism, though discouraging mould and mildew on seals is a constant battle and why I hate front loaders. (Most mould killers - including stuff like white vinegar - will ruin the rubber of the seals, so it's hard to completely kill. You can use cloths or paper towel to soak up any excess water after you've used the machine so it dries faster, but then you have to remember to remove them...)
I used to clean mine every 6 months, or after washing anything particularly badly soiled or stinky.
Sini Tuulia
in reply to Mre. Dartigen [maker mode] • • •Mre. Dartigen [maker mode]
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •Ah, yeah, I'm in a city with extremely hard water so that's probably why it's recommended here to do it more often.
I don't know if it's part of older washing machines, but I've never had a machine that had a hot setting higher than 60C. (I've also never had a brand new washing machine though.)
Sini Tuulia
in reply to Mre. Dartigen [maker mode] • • •I have the vague memory that in Japan most machines only go up to 50C, to save energy with that many people using them? A native Japanese person moved to Finland and reported that for the first time ever, his laundry always smelled fresh after washing!
Mre. Dartigen [maker mode]
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •Sini Tuulia
in reply to Mre. Dartigen [maker mode] • • •Elena ``of Valhalla''
in reply to Sini Tuulia • •@Sini Tuulia @Mre. Dartigen [maker mode] mine also goes up to 90°C (specifically the cotton cycle goes 60° 50° 40° 30° 20° -- 90° — I suspect that they don't want you to really use the 90° too often :D )
Usually I don't use it on clothing, but I do a 90° empty cycle every now and then to clean the washing machine
Magnus Ahltorp
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •@dartigen All washing machines I’ve had in Japan haven’t heated the water at all. Sometimes there’s been a hot water pipe that you can switch to and in that case you set the temperature on the the water boiler. Great for wool, but not so energy efficient to rinse in warm water for all other clothes. They’ve all been top loaders.
Front loaders have started to be popular in Japan as well, but if you just rent a less than a year each time you can’t invest in your own washing machine.
Mre. Dartigen [maker mode]
in reply to Magnus Ahltorp • • •Magnus Ahltorp
in reply to Mre. Dartigen [maker mode] • • •@dartigen All washing machines I’ve owned or used in Sweden have gone up to 90 or 95, but the washing machines I’ve used in Japan had a rating of maybe 50-60, despite not having a heating element.
So in addition to being able to produce the heat, the parts in the machine have to tolerate the heat, and not melt, deform, or age quickly when subjected to almost boiling water.
Sini Tuulia
in reply to Magnus Ahltorp • • •I have the vague idea that it's common to air dry laundry outside, which helps a little bit, but definitely explains that one dude's laundry gripes.
Mre. Dartigen [maker mode]
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •@ahltorp Not to mention that cold water won't remove greasy residue or stains...
There seems to be the thought that the soap is enough to kill everything, but it just doesn't.
soil gremlin
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •Sini Tuulia
in reply to soil gremlin • • •@tefferbear We don't have that here, so I looked up what's in it: "The formulation is a combination of ingredients, the key ingredient being sodium percarbonate, sodium carbonate, surfactants and polymer."
So it's Super Soda, which definitely sounds like it works! You can use all kinds of household soda concoctions on laundry and even household cleaning.
Marion Grau
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •Sini Tuulia
in reply to Marion Grau • • •It's been a while since I knit or did crochet, but there's at least a couple of kinds of 100% wool that has been felted and treated in such a way that the fibres become harder, denser and more durable. "Superwash" or something, because they can also be machine washed after without shrinking. Will wear down eventually, of course, but. 🤔
I've handled some sheep wool yarn with linen, hemp, ramie, alpaca, nettle and/or silk mixed in, which apparently makes the yarn more abrasion resistant, but never worked with them! I know my mother has a wool & nettle jumper that is close to 20 years old and is in perfect condition and feels only slightly rougher and squished together than "normal" wool.
Worth mentioning is that you rarely wash woollen things, so they shed a lot less microplastics into the ecosystem even if there is polyester or acrylic in them!
Michael Klepacki :kare_bomb:
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •Sini Tuulia
in reply to Michael Klepacki :kare_bomb: • • •@kleypack Short answer, it can be, but shouldn't significantly be.
Long answer: Liquid detergent for white laundry usually only contains optical brighteners, which is blue pigment to make the white fabric look less yellowed. Powder detergent for whites contains an oxidiser, which gradually physically bleaches the fabric back to a crisp white. This does oxidise the fabric a little bit. 😄 Which will damage it somewhat! But on the other hand it also sanitises it as plenty of microbes do not enjoy being minutely bleached. The laundry does smell fresher and I haven't noticed any wear on any of my stuff.
Powder detergent for coloured laundry does not contain the whitening agent. The ingredients themselves vary across them, but it's sodium laureth sulfate, soap and enzymatic cleaners for the most part, in both liquid and powder.
I feel like I have to use not even half of the recommended dose of powder versus the full amount of liquid for the laundry to *feel* clean. Your mileage may vary!
Michael Klepacki :kare_bomb:
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •ah this is amazing, thank you! I only used mixed detergent anyway, have never bought the detergent just for whites (too much of my whites are more ecru or have other colors as well). Also totally agree about the amount needed, the poweder goes a long way.
Guess I can safely go back to powder. Appreciate the thorough answer! 😊
Sini Tuulia
in reply to Michael Klepacki :kare_bomb: • • •Katherine W
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •Sini Tuulia
in reply to Katherine W • • •@FiddleSix I'm genuinely glad you asked! It's most to do with the water temperature and the amount of agitation needed.
Cotton in general washes better when the water is hot and when there's a bunch of agitation, so a longer program. (On my machine the suggested program is 2h 20min at 60C, for example.) This is fine. Spin cycle it as harsh as you want to, too, as a plant fibre it soaks up a lot of liquid and dries slowly.
But when you wash synthetics, often containing elasthane and spandex etc, those do degrade very fast when the water is hot and there is a lot of agitation. Hot and long also leads to more microplastic shedding, I'm fairly sure! You may also want to use a different detergent for the two, or different amounts. They also dry faster, so less spinning required, less wear on the clothing and washing machine, and less energy expended.
Katherine W
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •Willow, Venus Pirate 🏳️⚧️
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •Sini Tuulia
in reply to Willow, Venus Pirate 🏳️⚧️ • • •@Willow Oh yes, it's basically my nemesis. It depends on how much is on there, and what it smells like, sometimes the only thing that works is washing it 5-12 times and suffering.
But! I've found that Marseille soap works pretty well. (It's a type of traditional olive oil based block soap. As soap as you can get, really. I assume Castile soap works similarly.)
First I'll reaaaaaaally lather the garments in the sink with the soap and some comfortably warm water, mostly rinse that off, lather again, rinse it again... You can sort of tell when gunk stops coming off, when it feels less slippery, or the smell changes?
Then you just need to rinse it really really well, because bar soap isn't super good inside a washing machine in large quantities, though a little doesn't hurt. Put in like double the detergent you'd usually use, wash normally.
If that didn't do it, or it feels fine but smells bad, wash it with a cup of table vinegar, or 3 tablespoons of white vinegar.
Willow, Venus Pirate 🏳️⚧️
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •ND Dev
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •I can confirm that fabric conditioner is a con. I haven't used it for years, and the clothes come out just fine. Our towels are like sandpaper, because I used to use fabric conditioner on them, but clothes we bought since I stopped using fabric conditioner are absolutely okay without it.
Bedclothes really want to be washed at 60°C because it kills house dust mite. Underwear needs 60°C because it kills germs. I've done that for years, for Helen's undies as well as mine, ignoring the care labels, and it's been fine.
Sini Tuulia
in reply to ND Dev • • •@nddev Yes! To both dust mites and bacteria. But also the higher temperatures kill the yeasts from human skin, which are generally not harmful or rot the fabrics, but can transfer between people using the same laundry: everybody can get itchy feet if somebody has cursed socks.
Some people are also deeply allergic to fabric softener and there's residue flaking off of people wearing conditioned clothing that gets on everything as a very fine dust, not to mention the VOCs that get breathed in. Please everybody stop using fabric conditioner!
eena meena me
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •Sini Tuulia
in reply to eena meena me • • •@meena Yes!
The smell is either mildew and/or bacteria, both of which thrive on the wet human matter left on the textiles and the fibres themselves.
Depending on how long it's been and how much has grown, you might be able to get away with putting it to air out and dry in bright sunlight: UV radiation kills a lot of microbes and ozone breaks apart the organic compounds that produce the smell.
If it's been a *while* or the laundry has been left wet and smelly enough times for it to permeate the seams etc., the simplest option is to wash it very hot - 60C and up, preferably 70C. (140F to 158F)
These temps kill most microbial life. Though bacteria starts going at lower temperatures mildew, mould, yeasts take hotter. The detergent washes the broken down organic compounds away.
If it can't be washed hot, there's always acid or alkaline/base! Soaking it in a white vinegar solution (a cup per bucket) or with soda or borax (half a cup in a bucket? Somebody else might know). I just use vinegar since it's technically safe to eat. 😄
You can also just pour two cups of table vinegar in the washing machine and wash it all cold if you don't want to mess around with a bucket or the sink. And then wash it another time with normal temperature and detergent.
Sini Tuulia
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •Mx Amber Alex
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •we wash everything at 40°C, everything hygiene-related (bedsheets, underwear, towels, etc.) at 60°C. I was despairing over "30°C gentle machine wash, no tumble dry, careful dry cleaning only" clothes just earlier today, too: 97% cotton, 3% elasthane chinos that were labelled as 30°C, no tumble drying, and loads of them in all sorts of colours, even "basically the natural colour of cotton" off-white.
I had half a mind to buy them, throw them in at 40°C and tumble dry, and see what comes out, but I couldn't afford sinking that money down the drain if it does damage them.
Sini Tuulia
in reply to Mx Amber Alex • • •@amberage Yeaaaaah, my bullshit senses are tingling with the "30C only" label on plant fibres at the best of times. At the very least it should take 40C without issue! There's no good reason why cotton (+elasthane) shouldn't withstand 60C! If they cut corners and didn't prewash and thus pre-shrink the fabric, it can shrink, but this really shouldn't be an issue.
I read somewhere that some percentage of human yeasts survive the 40C wash and may give you foot problems, so you should probably chuck socks into the hotter wash sometimes, too. 🤔
Mx Amber Alex
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •4d3fect
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •Modern HE washers don't dissolve the powder sufficiently so we dissolve in warm water before adding laundry.
Sini Tuulia
in reply to 4d3fect • • •@4d3fect Oh yes, makes sense! I knew there had to be some compound to make the liquid shelf stable for years on end, so the antifungal makes sense even if it's been so long I had no memory of seeing one on the bottle.
I buy a cheap generic fragrance free powder that has been approved by the Finnish Allergy & Asthma Association so it's pretty stripped down of anything that doesn't need to be there! Dissolving in warm water is probably a good step, I tend to administer it straight onto the drum because it tends to gum up the dispenser thingy, and the hot water will hit it right away anyway.
4d3fect
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •Sini Tuulia
in reply to 4d3fect • • •4d3fect
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •Jenny Fx
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •Sini Tuulia
in reply to Jenny Fx • • •@urbanfoxe You might not, unless they're white! The slight acidity, oiliness and saltiness of sweat tends to create stains in coloured fabric by changing the actual composition or amount of dye in the fabric, and it's fairly impossible to change it back...
If on white fabric, the yellowing is due to all the various things and you can bleach it out with some effort. 🤔 A small bottle of stain remover was less anxiety inducing to handle than a big bottle of bleach, though.
When using deodorant with aluminium the salts tend to react with the dyes and oxidise, I once got weird dark grey green stains on a light blue shirt! Never came off, no matter what I did.
cuan_knaggs
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •sabik
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •Sini Tuulia
in reply to sabik • • •Funnily enough you can 3D-print weird garments (I doubt they're comfy), and programmable knitting machines have been a thing for centuries! But sewing is VERY complicated to do well.
sabik
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •Helen LH
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •Sini Tuulia
in reply to Helen LH • • •@Research_FTW Yes, the quality of just generic things has gone really downhill. Make it as cheap and as fast as possible, it doesn't matter if it doesn't last because all you want to do is sell even more of the same anyway. It's a race to the bottom and it makes me furious!
(Even the "luxury" options are nearly as bad, it's the same stuff with a more expensive label. Certifications for Fair Trade, union work or organic materials and Öko-Tex for non-toxic materials do help discerning when the manufacturers gave half a shit, but yeah.)
Melissa Madsen
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •Wool is great! There are quite a few niche producers in Australia and New Zealand making good quality, machine washable, sustainable wool garments, including underwear. New Zealanders specialise in blended merino and possum wool garments. Lightweight but incredibly warm, and low pilling. (Possums are a feral species in New Zealand.)
#recycle #rewear #repair #resell
Samuel Hautamäki
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •Elena ``of Valhalla''
in reply to Samuel Hautamäki • •@Samuel Hautamäki I know of a place that sells kevlar reinforced fabric to end consumers, so I think that *is* actually an option.
the fabric is quite expensive, and they also sell kevlar-specific tools (mostly for cutting), and I believe they are really needed, which would add to the expense, so I'm quite sure it would be significantly more expensive than buying one, and not just because the bought one is made by underpaid labour (also that, but a lot is also economy of scale).
I believe it's probably also significantly harder than making a regular jacket, especially a non-tailored one, so it would take significant time and skill.
But it is an option, if one wants and enjoys it.
Samuel Hautamäki
in reply to Elena ``of Valhalla'' • • •Elena ``of Valhalla''
in reply to Samuel Hautamäki • •@Samuel Hautamäki lol :D
https://www.extremtextil.de/
and this is the kevlar section
https://www.extremtextil.de/en/fabrics/heat-and-cutting-protection/kevlar.html
it may be a dangerous shop :D
(I've never bought the kevlar, but I've bought other technical fabric and various components and haberdashery from them)
Raff Karva
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •I stopped buying new clothes years ago.
I learned that there is a huge number of people who buy really good (and expensive) clothes, wear them once and sell on eBay.
I got a Goretex Pro (I know it’s not sustainable but please read on) jacket designed for the most extreme weather on earth, RRP £480, I got it for £40.
Because it’s a REALLY good product, I’ve had it now for 5 years and it still looks new. I am certain it will last me another decade if not longer.
Sini Tuulia
in reply to Raff Karva • • •I've made mine for a while now, and have reached a point where I have enough until a lot of it falls apart. 😄 Good for the environment, bad for making cool and informative sewing posts online!
You can find all kinds of treasures in the second hand sphere, it might take a lot of time and luck, but there's Good Shit on there. Using a garment that has already been made is always for the better, at least until we can make recycling them profitable - it's already possible but because it doesn't make money and isn't mandated, the industry doesn't. If we don't wear it, it ends up in landfill or nature and slowly breaks apart there. Yay capitalism. 🙃
Raff Karva
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •Sini Tuulia
in reply to Raff Karva • • •Raff Karva
in reply to Raff Karva • • •Saying that, I also build my own furniture, grow my own food, and as a skilled engineer, I repair every piece of equipment rather than replace (until I can’t repair any more).
Unfortunately, enshitification means that humanity stopped producing good quality items that can be repaired, instead creating planned obsolescence, forcing repeat purchases of the same product, which could have easily been designed to last a lifetime but wasn’t due to capitalism and greed.
Sini Tuulia
in reply to Raff Karva • • •@RaffKarva I love that the Right To Repair movement is making headway in the EU but it's too little and too late for a lot of created and accumulated trash. I've been happy to see even modular laptops and smartphones being made! But because worker's aren't paid enough anywhere, they can't afford the nice and sensibly made more durable things even if they exist. (Citing the Vimes Boot Theory, once again.)
A lot of people don't even know there are other options to spending on trash! I suppose the best we can do is yell about it so people find out.
pgcd
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •Sini Tuulia
in reply to pgcd • • •pgcd
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •Liminal witch 🧙♀️ Sarah
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •can we make repairing clothes normal again?
There's no one stopping us. #RightToRepair for clothing is fairly easy.
Elena ``of Valhalla'' likes this.
Sini Tuulia
in reply to Liminal witch 🧙♀️ Sarah • • •The Binh
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •@xgebi this is such a great thread. And yes: where if not here on masto?
Thanks for all the insights.
#mending related: a sticker i felt the urge to create (pro mending and repairing).
masukomi
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •@xgebi How bad/good is hemp? My impression was that it was significantly better for the soil (overall) than cotton but I dunno about how bad it is to harvest & turn into fiber.
I heard that hemp jeans tend to last longer than cotton, but don't know how true that is.
Sini Tuulia
in reply to masukomi • • •@masukomi Hemp is much more ecological to grow than cotton, which isn't a very high bar but there it is! The plant also has other uses, so there's some synergy with other production.
There's viscose made from hemp cellulose, because it's a pretty plant-agnostic process: put cellulose in, out comes viscose.
I think when used "raw" hemp is a slightly rough but very durable fabric, similar to linen? I've read about it being used for yukata etc.
I've mostly handled hemp viscose, and blends, so I don't know what it's like on its own as fabric. Most ropes used to be hemp, so the fibre has been use for millennia, but the War On Drugs made farming even the non-entertaining kind much more difficult in the US. But it will grow pretty much anywhere, as far as I remember!
Sini Tuulia
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •masukomi
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •Sini Tuulia
in reply to masukomi • • •Elena ``of Valhalla''
in reply to Sini Tuulia • •@Sini Tuulia @masukomi I think that chemical retting of linen and other baste fibers is also pretty bad, and of course it's faster, easier and cheaper than the other alternatives (dew and water).
I thought that most commercial linen these days was chemically retted, but a quick internet search gives hopes that it's not necessarily so, which is always nice to find out.
Elena ``of Valhalla''
in reply to Sini Tuulia • •@Sini Tuulia @masukomi I don't remember where I've read that most archeological fiber remains that are listed as linen have a good chance to be another bast fiber, including hemp or nettle because they look very similar and nobody bothers doing the detailed tests for the difference.
I think in recent times (say 1800s or early 1900 :D ) hemp was more likely to be used for coarse products and linen for finer ones, but I'm not sure whether it was related to some intrinsic quality.
My mother still has a few vintage cotton/hemp towels and they don't feel significantly different from cotton/linen.
Sini Tuulia
in reply to Elena ``of Valhalla'' • • •Elena ``of Valhalla'' likes this.
Amethyst witch lunya :neocat_floof_flag_trans:
in reply to Liminal witch 🧙♀️ Sarah • • •y'all don't constantly repair?
The only clothes I've ever thrown away are a uniform that split in fucking halves and a pair of socks cos 1 had a hole the size of my heel
Sini Tuulia
in reply to Amethyst witch lunya :neocat_floof_flag_trans: • • •Amethyst witch lunya :neocat_floof_flag_trans:
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •Sini Tuulia
in reply to Amethyst witch lunya :neocat_floof_flag_trans: • • •@sleepybisexual I keep making 18th century petticoats out of old bedding and am wearing one as a house skirt even as I type this. 😄 They're just rectangles pleated onto waist ties and really very comfy! The one I'm wearing is a decades old half of a duvet cover!
(Image is an older gif of me wearing it in my living room.)
Elena ``of Valhalla'' likes this.
TransitBiker
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •Sini Tuulia
in reply to TransitBiker • • •TransitBiker
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •Dilman Dila
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •Sini Tuulia
in reply to Dilman Dila • • •Dilman Dila
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •Sini Tuulia
in reply to Dilman Dila • • •@dilmandila
"Across the tropics, people worked out long ago how to transform fig tree bark into comfortable cloth—the practice could even predate weaving." Neat, hadn't heard of it.
"The colonial rulers had little use for the industry. They compelled farmers to produce cotton for English mills instead, stopped the practice of paying taxes in barkcloth, and banned traditional religion.'" of course. Of fucking course!
(source Atlas Obscura article)
movation
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •Dilman Dila
in reply to movation • • •@movation I remember one editor telling me to change bark cloth for something like leather in a short story set in the far future. I did, because I was just starting out and didn't know how to fight for my ideas, but I keep putting bark cloth in the future as the dominant material whenever I get the chance. Someone saw this in my film and they said "oh, so even in the future Africans are backward?"
I guess colonialism did a good job!
Sini Tuulia
in reply to Dilman Dila • • •@dilmandila @movation Just because something has been done for a long time doesn't mean it's inferior! Often the opposite! Colonialism go in the bin, please. 😂
But yeah. Ramie is lovely to work with and feels quite nice. It has slightly different properties than cotton or linen, so somebody not familiar with it might be puzzled by the things it does, but it is very very comfortable to wear when it's nice quality.
BjoernAusGE
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •Sini Tuulia
in reply to BjoernAusGE • • •BjoernAusGE
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •Sini Tuulia
in reply to BjoernAusGE • • •@bjoern Fully ignoring the cultural and social significance of dress, we ALREADY produce clothing for a very small group of people.
Most of the manufactured clothing is made in countries where it's easier to skirt all labour and safety regulations (if they exist), and is sold to the West, where a very small margin of all the people on Earth buy it by the truckloads, wear it rarely if ever, and then donate it to "charity" when it's time for another closet purge, or they age or change size - whereupon it often gets shipped way back across the world and piles up by the bales in Africa et al where it makes financial sense to sort through it, and then gets carted to rot in a desert or landfill if it doesn't get picked up by anyone because it's such fundamentally poor quality.
In short, we should stop producing shit that is only good for the landfill in the end, and fast fashion needs to go die in a bin! Making regular quality clothes with moderation, to last, and out of reasonable local materials is how humans used to do it!
kechpaja
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •Sini Tuulia
in reply to kechpaja • • •@kechpaja Jeans used to be a working person's garment that would last for decades (or years of hard work) but now they're made of paper and elasticised in such a way that the material disintegrates when you properly wash it enough. I used to find some success with different ripstop-fabric cargo pants, but that's a very specific look and not for everybody!
I mostly wear skirts these days because they're much easier to make than trousers and my knees hate extra pressure on the kneecap. 😄
Aleksi Stenberg
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •Praetor
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •Sini Tuulia
in reply to Praetor • • •But polyester is cheap and most people don't know any better, so here we are.
Praetor
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •krumminell energi
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •What about hemp clothing?
I try to thrift most of my clothes since buying new at least somewhat sustainable stuff is expensive but that hinges very much on things being available in my size, I can only assume this issue is aggravated for people who have even more have trouble finding clothes in their size even when not buying second-hand.
Sini Tuulia
in reply to krumminell energi • • •@krummi Yeah, I originally started sewing by modifying thrifted clothes and then making them from scratch because I'm shaped so that it's impossible to find things that fit. So I know how rough it can be if you're even slightly different from the "standard human" the manufacturers pretend exists! Every penny to an inclusive shape, size and/or style clothing line means more will get made, but they tend to be expensive in comparison.
I replied to someone about hemp and would be repeating most of it, so here's a link to that reply. 😄 https://eldritch.cafe/@sinituulia/112117144341322568
Sini Tuulia
2024-03-18 14:24:15
krumminell energi
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •Haha same, I'm not so great at sewing but I do occasionally modify clothes I thrift, mostly to make sleeves or pant legs shorter (there are other modifications that could be made but spoons are a bit limited and I don't have a machine).
Really wish to see more variety in sizes in the future for all shapes of bodies so that having sustainable clothes that fit doesn't hinge on personal crafting skills or money for additional modifications!
Also thanks for the link, I had missed that reply! And thanks for the overall very informative thread, another thing that immediately came to my mind was the fake-"sustainable" bamboo clothes that are seemingly everywhere now too but are really just viscose in disguise.
Do you have any info/thoughts on lyocell and similar materials?
Sini Tuulia
in reply to krumminell energi • • •@krummi You're welcome, it was pretty deep in the thread! If you missed it, @valhalla replied with additional hemp thoughts below it - I'll probably add more thoughts tomorrow but it's late and am out of spoons. 😅
It's been a bit, but we did go through all the different man-made fibres at school materials class, like cupro, modal, rayon, Tencel... Most of them are a trade name for the chemical bath and process they use when making viscose, Lyocell as a product name wasn't around back then. They all have slight differences and some of them are super bad to produce, most are quite nice to wear and drape.
Lyocell is supposed to be more green, but my personal experience of it is that it feels like nice cotton but doesn't hold up to washing and cat claws like cotton! Can be made from recycled fibres though, so there's that.
krumminell energi
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •No worries and take your time, conserving spoons is important! 🥄
Either way thanks for your insights! I was somehow under the impression that lyocell was less toxic to produce than viscose but maybe that was just marketing information, I should probably research more.
Also, including information on how fabric feels is super valuable for texture-sensitive folks. I find that softness is an increasingly important criterion for me as I get older, sadly some knitted stuff from pure wool has to be ruled out because it feels too scratchy on my skin without extra layers (which isn't always possible due to easily feeling too warm ).
Sini Tuulia
in reply to krumminell energi • • •@krummi Lyocell is less toxic than viscose but this is also not a very high bar! I think there's been new process patents floating around where they take in an reuse the chemicals and the water in a closed loop... But because it's expensive to retrofit existing factories, it's not always done, and there's generally very little oversight. Having an Oeko-Tex label (Öko-Tex 100, also) on it means it's AT LEAST had the eyes of somebody on it at some point.
Half of sewing for me is Fabric Sense, sensory information is extremely important! I've handled some bamboo viscose knits that are the softest thing I've ever touched, even though they're not the most durable option out there.
Gabriel N
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •I’ve been following Avery Trufelman for a long while, and her newsletter on fashion is great. This one may interest you:
Radical acceptance an thrifting, Articles of Interest > https://articlesofinterest.substack.com/p/what-to-do-with-all-the-clothes
What to do with all the Clothes
Articles Of InterestJames
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •I got a Russel Athletic hoody on my 12th birthday and wore it until I was 38. I regretfully let it go after doing a Hell & Back in it, when it was soaked in cow dung and rat piss.
Point being: clothes *will* last if give them a chance. Use a tailor or repair service to help keep them together.
Sini Tuulia
in reply to James • • •@chongliss I love that there are Right To Repair laws and repair cafes popping up! People do care, they just might not know what to do. But if they're taking their temperamental vacuum cleaner for a tune-up and notice that the cafe also does textile repairs? They're gonna come back with a bag of clothes they love and don't want to throw away. There used to be a tailor or seamstress on every block, according to some older people.
There are people who think it's easier to just buy a new shirt instead of sewing a button back on, but I hope more people realise how much effort and resources that new shirt was!
Morpheus Being
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •eena meena me
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •ND Dev
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •Cher Tailor
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •looking at my one friend with holes in all his socks
The sustainability king...
Sini Tuulia
in reply to Cher Tailor • • •Just Bob 🇺🇲♒🐧
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •Then, there is hemp 😁
Growing hemp cleans the soil, if the garment is no longer usable, drop it in a field and it adds nourishments...
Elena ``of Valhalla''
in reply to Just Bob 🇺🇲♒🐧 • •Sini Tuulia
in reply to Elena ``of Valhalla'' • • •@valhalla @bob Yes, we should definitely be growing more hemp and less cotton, hemp is a pretty good plant... But it's not going to magically fix the exploitative, resource intensive and wasteful nature of the garment industry of the present day!
The simplest and cheapest solution is just wearing the things that already exist for longer. This doesn't benefit the shareholders, but that's an added bonus. 😄
Elena ``of Valhalla'' likes this.
Nicolas Hussein 🎶🎻🏳️🌈
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •Azul
in reply to Sini Tuulia • • •