Techie question..

I'm currently on #matrix and have been for a couple of years. I see people talk about #xmpp. Could some one give me a quick rundown of how they compare.

boosts appreciated

I'm interested in comparinsons relating to:
app and platform support
self hosting support
ability to pay someone for hosting
encryption level
general usability for "non techie" family and friends
community/political drama
comunication types supported (text/voip/sending files, and so on)

in reply to josefin

Xmpp has a long history. As matrix it is federated and you can choose Server and client and mix as you want. For self hosting there is @prosodyim - might take a good Sunday afternoon to setup. (AFAIK) the same guys work on @snikket_im which you can run in 10minutes if you have used docker compose. Resource wise Prosody runs fine on the oldest raspberry pi in your drawer. Or the cheapest 3€/month VPS.

Can't compare encryption, OMEMO works fine for me though.

in reply to josefin

@josefin I don't have direct experience with matrix

I self-host xmpp and I'd call it one of the easiest things to self-host: I did the original installation (years ago) using debian packages on a cheap vps and now I have to take care about it for a few minutes every now and then for general system security updates, plus once every two years for a distribution upgrade (half a day? when things go *badly*) and maybe a few hours another once per year when compliance.conversations.im tells me that I need to enable some other feature.

I know that conversations.im offers managed hosting, and I believe that there are other places, but I've never really looked into them

I'm not qualified to talk about the quality of the encryption, but with modern clients it's usually active (e2e, of course) by default

For my non-techie family members I've created an account on my server, which probably solved what I suspect could be the major hurdle, and since then they have been able to use it without significant problems. The main support I have to give them is reset their password when they change devices and have lost / forgotten it.

I'm not aware of significant drama (it may be there, but not very visible?)

It supports text and sending files. video calls is available between users of some clients, but it's not something I need, so I don't know which clients they are.

one caveat is that xmpp is *old* and there are a lot of old clients that aren't kept updated, and using those will result in a significantly worse experience. For non-techie users I solved the issue by telling them which client to use (conversations, on android), and there is a word-of-mouth list of clients that are guaranteed to be a safe choice: said conversations, gajim and dino-im on pc, and I believe monal on iThings; there are other clients that are good, if somebody wants to experiment a bit, but those are a good first choice.

reshared this

in reply to poetaster

@poetaster I also run a jitsi server, but that one is on a different VM where I allow the jitsi packages to do whatever they want with their own prosody server, so that I don't have to deal with breakages when it updates.

This is how I've set up the actual XMPP server, instead docs.trueelena.org/self_hostin…

poetaster reshared this.

in reply to uɐıʇsɐqǝs

for me the opposide

E2E- Encryption with OMEMO and
Video-Calls has a lot of problem in XMPP

There it is nice, that Matrix has develop a rust-library which is many clients integrated and let that everywhere work. They clients for matrix works everywhere well and most close all MCS (the XEP of Matrix).

Most XMPP-Clients use TLS-TCP connection on "special"-ports. So firewalls and technical hosting makes it unnecessary complicated. If you compare it with HTTP/Quic2.

Another technical different is, that for Groups/Chatroom always just one server could host it. During Matrix, this rooms are sync to all participated servers, so a outage has less impact.

in reply to josefin

Disclaimer: I'm biased towards XMPP and have not tried to host a Matrix server or convert friends.

XMPP is generally lighter, as a consequence of both a simpler (saner :P) protocol and mature server implementations.
Usability for "non techie" is very fine on mobile with Conversations (Android) and Monal (iOS). My mother uses it, and I'm 41.
Generally people say that Element (Matrix client) has more features and is more polished than what we have. It's all a matter of taste IMHO.
(1/2)

in reply to josefin

I am running an own XMPP-Server since 2008. The main difference between XMPP and Matrix is for me that Matrix doesnt erase (automatically) messages from the server, but XMPP does. So a Matrix Server increases its size of database, XMPP does not.
Matrix has, afaik only element as useful client.
XMPP hat more, for example conversations (Android), monal (iOS) and gajim (Linux, MacOS, Windows). Maybe there is also a client for a C64 ;)

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