Open source sustainability, donations, Finland
Since the sustainability of open source is a hot topic due to the xz debacle, and so many people keep suggesting asking for donations, I feel I need to post this. I'm not involved with xz, but like it's maintainer, I live in Finland.
Lars Wirzenius
in reply to Lars Wirzenius • • •In Finland, appealing to the public for donations requires prior permission from the police. Getting the permission is not automatic. Selling stuff far beyond a reasonable valuation counts as asking for donations. Even just saying that you accept donations can get you sued. It doesn't matter if you do it as a private person, as a company, or as a non-profit.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_Co…
Money Collection Act - Wikipedia
Contributors to Wikimedia projects (Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.)FLOX Advocate reshared this.
Lars Wirzenius
in reply to Lars Wirzenius • • •bmaxv
in reply to Lars Wirzenius • • •That's pretty interesting.
It makes sense to me, but I'm not going to speculate. I'm sure there are sources on the internet that explain the hows and whys.
orva
in reply to Lars Wirzenius • • •Lars Wirzenius
in reply to Lars Wirzenius • • •As a Finnish open source developer, this means that in practice, I can't ask for donations, whether directly, or via GitHub Sponsors or Patreon, or even an offshore organization that does the asking for you, is not an option. The risk is too real.
I also don't accept donations, to make the situation absolutely clear.
I am, however, willing to be paid for actual work I do. I can invoice via my own company.
(end)
Wilfried Klaebe
in reply to Lars Wirzenius • • •Lars Wirzenius
in reply to Wilfried Klaebe • • •@wonka I am not a legal expert, but if the work is real, and the compensation is justifiable, it should be OK.
If the work doesn't actually happen, or the compensation is wildly too big, it can get tricky.
Elena ``of Valhalla''
in reply to Wilfried Klaebe • •@Wilfried Klaebe @Lars Wirzenius would they need to have their own company (and thus be unable to do that if they are already working as an employee for somebody else)?
(I think that would be the case in my country, which is *not* Finland)
in reply to Lars Wirzenius • • •I guess I must close my ko-fi now, I only received 3€ from there, so it's not worth the risk 😅
Lars Wirzenius
in reply to • • •Nemo_bis 🌈
in reply to Lars Wirzenius • • •@bemyak You can file a request online at poliisi.fi/en/small-scale-mone… . I believe you'll have to specify a limit and a duration, for example 100 € and end of year, and then file a report after the end of the period.
Let me know if they reject your request, I can then put you in contact with the lawyer who won the recent case against the police on the matter (elokapina.fi/news/press-releas… ).
But yes, probably easier to close it. :)
Elokapinan voitto hallinto-oikeudessa osoittaa poliisin soveltavan rikoslakia mielivaltaisesti | Elokapina, Extinction Rebellion Finland
Elokapina, Extinction Rebellion FinlandLars Wirzenius reshared this.
Martin Owens :inkscape:
in reply to Lars Wirzenius • • •This is very interesting.
I make it clear that my patrons are -paying- me to work on Inkscape. They aren't donating to me. I'm not a charity, and Inkscape needs investment from invested parties, rather than spare kindness.
But there's no law, I don't think.
Akseli :quake_verified: :kde:
in reply to Lars Wirzenius • • •this stupid law bothers me to no end and its one more thing that makes earning money from your hobbies etc way more difficult than it should be...
Do you know if it has ever been tried to get removed?
Uli Kusterer (Not a kitteh)
in reply to Lars Wirzenius • • •Is this generally for getting paid without a clear equivalent value being provided, or is it just for donations?
Many people (e.g. on Twitch) say they take donations, which is actually a legal term reserved for charitable, gov’t-approved money.
What you get as a non-charitable entity is actually called a tip, which you can solicit just fine in most countries. (But you say not in Finland?)
Lars Wirzenius
in reply to Uli Kusterer (Not a kitteh) • • •Uli Kusterer (Not a kitteh)
in reply to Lars Wirzenius • • •“donation" is a specific legal term that is protected in many countries. Many people colloquially call any amount of money that you get without having to do something specific in return a “donation”. If you do that in public (e.g. on web sites or broadcast video like Twitch or YouTube) you get in trouble in most countries, not just in Finland.
So was wondering if maybe just using the right term (which in English is a “tip”) might help you.
Luc
in reply to Lars Wirzenius • • •Lars Wirzenius
in reply to Luc • • •unfa🇺🇦
in reply to Lars Wirzenius • • •Lars Wirzenius
Unknown parent • • •Seph‽ 🌳 🐦 🐟 🔔
Unknown parent • • •varjolintu
in reply to Lars Wirzenius • • •Lars Wirzenius
in reply to varjolintu • • •@varjolintu Yes, I know many people in Finland are using Patreon or similar. Paying taxes is good, but also irrelevant to this law. I wouldn't do that, myself, not again, without getting a permit. But ask an expert, I'm just a random person.
fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rahanker…
finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/201…
Rahankeräys – Wikipedia
Contributors to Wikimedia projects (Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.)