https://mastodon.social/@nixCraft/112637213238431183
A friend of mine joked when this came to light the other day that we should start the timer to see how long it would be before some SystemD person came out and said that was expected behavior and you're an idiot for using it wrong. And we laughed to ourselves, wouldn't that would be funny, that really is the reputation they have now isn't it.
Well, jokes on us, because that's the first fucking comment on the bug.
https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/33349
refuse systemd-tmpfiles --purge invocation without config file specified on cmdline · Issue #33349 · systemd/systemd
systemd version the issue has been seen with 256 Used distribution Debian Unstable Linux kernel version used 6.8.12-amd64 CPU architectures issue was seen on x86_64 Component systemd-tmpfiles Expec...GitHub
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Jonathan Lamothe
in reply to mhoye • • •@mhoye Look, it's plainly in the documentation that when you press this button, the computer will shoot you in the face. It's your fault for not reading the docs.
Do not question why there exists a button that shoots you in the face without warning
argv minus one
in reply to Jonathan Lamothe • • •@me
This is a Unix-like system. It has quite a few buttons that shoot you in the face without warning.
Jonathan Lamothe
in reply to argv minus one • • •/
and*
. My point, which remains unchanged, was that there is an effort underway to reduce the number of foot guns, and that's a good thing.mhoye
in reply to mhoye • • •Look, "/home is a tempfile" isn't just a footgun, or a bug.
It's an explicit ideological attack on the whole idea of what Linux is and who Linux is for.
If /home is just a tempfile to be purged when drivespace pressure hits some arbitrary threshold then Linux is a corporate-owned SAAS shim, and that's all it is. It's not just "breaking userspace", it's abandoning the idea that the people using that space and the stuff they've made there matter at all.
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Simon Frei
in reply to mhoye • • •mhoye
in reply to Simon Frei • • •@imsodin Everything you've just said is wrong.
The bug got fixed after public outcry, but the working culture that allowed that bug to exist in the first place hasn't changed at all and that's the problem.
If you've ever maintained a sizeable project, you know that long term, discoverability and legibility outweigh literally everything else, and when you find a problem with supportability you can solve with grep you take that win every single time.
Also, this shit's not funny in the least.
Simon Frei
in reply to mhoye • • •mhoye
in reply to Simon Frei • • •@imsodin "Nothing intentional?" Guy, _read the bug_.
bluca's opening comment is quite literally "this is working as intended and you are stupid".
The second comment says explicitly "the tool itself is nothing wrong."
It's not until you're 2/3rds of the way down the page that someone says "We need to rethink how --purge works. The principle of not ever destroying user data is paramount" and the next 2 comments from Poettering and Bluca are repeating that No Actually It's Right Actually.
mhoye
in reply to mhoye • • •SystemD is for landlords.
The whole system makes sense when your realize that SystemD's only constituency is people who want to rent out computers. Not for people who want to live under a their own roof, maybe in a community, to maybe build something together.
SystemD is just software for landlords.
Will
in reply to mhoye • • •Charlie Stross
in reply to Will • • •Tek say vote
in reply to Charlie Stross • • •Will
in reply to Charlie Stross • • •Jonathan Lamothe
Unknown parent • • •@Krangled Failstate
This is nonsense for at least three reasons:
rm -rf /
requires you to use--no-preserve-root
. I'm not sure about using*
from within the root directory and I'm not about to spin up a VM to test it, but this at least acknowledges that there's a problem.It was bad UX, plain and simple.
refuse systemd-tmpfiles --purge invocation without config file specified on cmdline · Issue #33349 · systemd/systemd
GitHubJonathan Lamothe
Unknown parent • • •Jonathan Lamothe
in reply to Jonathan Lamothe • • •@Krangled Failstate As for your remaining points, watch this video:
If you still don't understand, watch it again.
The Consequences of Your Code
YouTubeJonathan Lamothe
Unknown parent • • •@Krangled Failstate
"Oh no, we found an unexploded land mine from the second world war."
"Pfft. It hasn't been a problem in all this time. It's fine."
This is basically the same argument.
Seriously. Just stop.