Jeremiah Lee

9 mesi fa • •

Jeremiah Lee
9 mesi fa • •

I want Firefox to succeed more than ever and I support Mozilla finding better revenue sources than search engine default sales, but I do not support a $7M salary for its CEO.

I canceled my recurring donation to Mozilla because I need that money more than Mozilla’s CEO needs that money.

If there is a direct funding option of developers working on Firefox, I will happily reallocate that money. Send me links.

Source: Form 990 https://stateof.mozilla.org/

Edit: Replaced commentary with direct source

US Tax Form 990 for year 2022 for Mozilla Foundation. Page 7. Compensation of Officers, Directors, Trustees, Key Employees, Highest Compensated Employees, and Independent Contractors. Line 1. Column A. Mitchell Baker, Chair, paid only by a related for-profit. Column E. Reported compensation from related organizations. $6,903,089. Column F. Estimated amount of other compensation from the organization. $33,513.

The State of Mozilla: 2022 — 2023 Annual Report — Mozilla

Every year, in the spirit of openness upon which Mozilla was founded, we share publicly the ways we have protected, fought for and helped advance the internet in service of the people who rely on it every day.

^{stateof.mozilla.org}

Questa voce è stata modificata (9 mesi fa)

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in reply to Jeremiah Lee

Klaus Zimmermann :unverified:

in reply to Jeremiah Lee • 9 mesi fa • •

for comparison, the *entire* fundraising drive of the #FSF is 375,000 USD.

https://my.fsf.org/donate

That single Mozilla CEO cops a whopping *18 times* more than the goal funding of the entire FSF for 2024!

Fundraising bar for FSF on Dec 29 2023. Progress: 291239 / 375000 USD

#fsf

in reply to Klaus Zimmermann :unverified:

Peter Motte

in reply to Klaus Zimmermann :unverified: • 9 mesi fa • •

@kzimmermann I use M FF to make sure the others don't get a monopoly. I started using FF years ago because of problems with MS IE. With FF I had less problems. In those days MS had over 90% of the browser market. Using FF by me has nothing to do with some kind of ethical question, it has to do with defending against monopolists. If FF would get a monopoly, I would get out of it.

@Klaus Zimmermann :unverified:

in reply to Peter Motte

Klaus Zimmermann :unverified:

in reply to Peter Motte • 9 mesi fa • •

@PeterMotte but isn't defending against monopoly some sort of ethical stance, too? :)

Come to think of it, I myself only use firefox because I like it, and I feel it's better. And that's it. I had never thought about the monopolization bit until only 5 years ago or something.

I like the browser - the product. Not the corporation that makes it.

@Jeremiah

@Peter Motte @Jeremiah Lee

in reply to Klaus Zimmermann :unverified:

Peter Motte

in reply to Klaus Zimmermann :unverified: • 9 mesi fa • •

@kzimmermann Defending against a monopoly is making sure you can't become the victim of the monopolist's power. That's not necessarily an ethical stance, it's self defense.

@Klaus Zimmermann :unverified:

in reply to Klaus Zimmermann :unverified:

Virtue signal 💉💉💉🇺🇸 🇺🇦

in reply to Klaus Zimmermann :unverified: • 9 mesi fa • •

@kzimmermann Most of it was bonuses, though, not her salary. I don't agree with it, but its also not something that is likely to repeat.

@Klaus Zimmermann :unverified:

in reply to Klaus Zimmermann :unverified:

Emmanuele Bassi

in reply to Klaus Zimmermann :unverified: • 9 mesi fa • •

@kzimmermann the FSF doesn't do anything, though, so not the best comparison…

@Klaus Zimmermann :unverified:

in reply to Emmanuele Bassi

Klaus Zimmermann :unverified:

in reply to Emmanuele Bassi • 9 mesi fa • •

@ebassi ok, you don't like the FSF. That's fair.

I still encourage you to go on and add up the target budgets of all the donation-driven open source software projects you can find doing fundraisers this year.

Then we can see how many entire projects' yearly budgets equal out the Mozilla CEO's salary, or just half of it if it's too difficult. Let's make it fair and discount the "bonuses" that were not part of the base salary.

Here's a starter: Framasoft - 200,000 EUR. Know of any other?

@Emmanuele Bassi

in reply to Klaus Zimmermann :unverified:

Emmanuele Bassi

in reply to Klaus Zimmermann :unverified: • 9 mesi fa • •

@kzimmermann this is the compensation for the CEO of the Mozilla *Corporation* (who is also the chairman of the Foundation, but doesn't get compensation for that). You should not compare the CEO of MoCo with other no profit foundations, or small donation-driven software projects. Framasoft isn't getting 400mil USD per year out of deals with other companies.

That's why I said that the FSF doesn't do anything, compared to Mozilla.

@Klaus Zimmermann :unverified:

in reply to Emmanuele Bassi

Klaus Zimmermann :unverified:

in reply to Emmanuele Bassi • 9 mesi fa • •

@ebassi ah OK, thanks for the clarification!

@Emmanuele Bassi

in reply to Jeremiah Lee

kapsiR

in reply to Jeremiah Lee • 9 mesi fa • •

Maybe @s_hentzschel can shed some light into the donation process here?

@Sören Hentzschel 🦊

in reply to kapsiR

Sören Hentzschel 🦊

in reply to kapsiR • 9 mesi fa • •

@kapsiR Someone rehashes the story EVERY YEAR, presumably to put themselves at the center of attention. I don't have any other explanation, and it's slowly getting boring. Mozilla is much more than Firefox. The salary of the CEO position of the Mozilla CORPORATION is not determined by the market share of Firefox. Neither the Mozilla Corporation nor Mitchell Baker are the recipient of the donations. These are for projects of the Mozilla FOUNDATION. Totally different things.

@kapsiR

in reply to Sören Hentzschel 🦊

kapsiR

in reply to Sören Hentzschel 🦊 • 9 mesi fa • •

@s_hentzschel Thanks for putting that out! I wanted to get a bit more information before I boost anything like that...

@Sören Hentzschel 🦊

in reply to kapsiR

Sören Hentzschel 🦊

in reply to kapsiR • 9 mesi fa • •

Maybe this illustration helps a bit to understand. It's from https://stateof.mozilla.org - which is also the source for the financial report.

The State of Mozilla: 2022 — 2023 Annual Report — Mozilla

Every year, in the spirit of openness upon which Mozilla was founded, we share publicly the ways we have protected, fought for and helped advance the internet in service of the people who rely on it every day.

^{stateof.mozilla.org}

in reply to Sören Hentzschel 🦊

Sören Hentzschel 🦊

in reply to Sören Hentzschel 🦊 • 9 mesi fa • •

@kapsiR And here are a few links for what you support with donations to the Mozilla FOUNDATION:

https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/what-we-do/
https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/what-we-fund/

The money is not used at all to pay the development of Firefox, any other product of the Mozilla Corporation, or any salary*.

*) Thunderbird is a product from MZLA and 99 % of their income are donations. They pay the employees with donations. But MZLA is not the Mozilla Corporation, and you use a different form to donate for Thunderbird.

What we fund

Funding and resources for bright people and bold ideas working to shape a more human-centered internet.

^{Mozilla Foundation}

@kapsiR

in reply to Jeremiah Lee

Emmanuele Bassi

in reply to Jeremiah Lee • 9 mesi fa (Ricevuto 8 mesi fa) • •

first of all: never, ever read what drivel Lunduke vomits. He's scum, and if you're getting your information from him you're basically falling for a huckster.

Second: your donation goes to the Mozilla Foundation, but the CEO is paid by the Mozilla Corporation, and that money comes from the business deals that are, among other things, made by the CEO.

CEO are overpaid? Yes, that's absolutely true all across the industry; is the MoCo CEO paid by donations to the MoFo? No.

in reply to Emmanuele Bassi

Jean-Shell au ʨrminal cha℔yant

in reply to Emmanuele Bassi • 9 mesi fa (Ricevuto 8 mesi fa) • •

@ebassi But did the CEO laid off people, and/or failed to hire more, and/or invest in Mozilla's missions, instead of increasing her capital?

@Emmanuele Bassi

in reply to Jean-Shell au ʨrminal cha℔yant

Emmanuele Bassi

in reply to Jean-Shell au ʨrminal cha℔yant • 9 mesi fa (Ricevuto 8 mesi fa) • •

@nojhan that's for the board of MoCo/MoFo to decide, but if they keep her employed I think they are satisfied with her performance.

I am all for expressing dismay at the performance of Moz, and their lack of direction; I don't want to single out the MoCo CEO, when clearly the MoFo is behind her; and I don't really want to single out her pay, because adding 10 more engineers isn't going to make Firefox any better if there isn't anyone bringing in cash at year's end.

@Jean-Shell au ʨrminal cha℔yant

in reply to Emmanuele Bassi

Emmanuele Bassi

in reply to Emmanuele Bassi • 9 mesi fa (Ricevuto 8 mesi fa) • •

@nojhan disclaimer: I worked at Mozilla (for a little bit, 10 years ago), and Mozilla grew far too fast, and far too much, so I don't agree with any assessment that says: "the CEO should get a pay cut and they should hire more people", because that's precisely what broke Mozilla. The issue is lack of direction, and a market that has been monopolised by Google, and that isn't going to be fixed by a bunch more people hacking on Firefox on Linux.

@Jean-Shell au ʨrminal cha℔yant

in reply to Emmanuele Bassi

Dekkzz :emacs:

in reply to Emmanuele Bassi • 9 mesi fa (Ricevuto 8 mesi fa) • •

@ebassi @nojhan
@louis

Mozilla is almost a case study in clueless management leadership, how much did they pay for pocket?

i remove it from the UI but every update there it is back front & centre.

@Emmanuele Bassi @Jean-Shell au ʨrminal cha℔yant

in reply to Dekkzz :emacs:

Emmanuele Bassi

in reply to Dekkzz :emacs: • 9 mesi fa (Ricevuto 8 mesi fa) • •

@dekkzz76 @nojhan @louis the sins of Mozilla run a lot deeper than acquiring a bookmark service, and in general have nothing to do with how they spent money on acquisitions or even hiring practices. Ironically, it's the ironclad conviction that Firefox should be a product that messed them up; if they focused on making it embeddable, we would not have Chrome at the heart of everything… or, at least, not as much (can't fight Google on money and resources)

@Dekkzz :emacs: @Jean-Shell au ʨrminal cha℔yant

in reply to Emmanuele Bassi

Dekkzz :emacs:

in reply to Emmanuele Bassi • 9 mesi fa (Ricevuto 8 mesi fa) • •

embeddable? in what sense?

in reply to Dekkzz :emacs:

Emmanuele Bassi

in reply to Dekkzz :emacs: • 9 mesi fa (Ricevuto 8 mesi fa) • •

@dekkzz76 @nojhan @louis first: making Gecko (the web rendering engine) usable as a library, which would have reduced the ubiquity of WebKit; then, making Firefox a generic, embeddable framework, to avoid CEF as the core of Electron. By focusing on centralising everything around the web browser, Mozilla missed the train in making the web as an app development platform, and now we have Chrome everywhere, which means Google.

@Dekkzz :emacs: @Jean-Shell au ʨrminal cha℔yant

in reply to Emmanuele Bassi

Vincent Degove

in reply to Emmanuele Bassi • 9 mesi fa (Ricevuto 8 mesi fa) • •

@ebassi @dekkzz76 @nojhan @louis That seems a great idea for the future: electron apps are shit, but there is a high demand (from developers) to write "desktop apps" with web technology. If Mozilla can answer this demand better than Electron (and I'm sure there is room for improvement) it will be a massive success.

This train hasn't passed yet, still time to hop in

@Emmanuele Bassi @Dekkzz :emacs: @Jean-Shell au ʨrminal cha℔yant

Questa voce è stata modificata (9 mesi fa)

in reply to Vincent Degove

Steve F.

in reply to Vincent Degove • 9 mesi fa (Ricevuto 8 mesi fa) • •

@vincevlo @ebassi @dekkzz76 @nojhan @louis They had xulrunner, too. It died in 2015 when Electron was just starting.

@Emmanuele Bassi @Vincent Degove @Dekkzz :emacs: @Jean-Shell au ʨrminal cha℔yant

in reply to Steve F.

Emmanuele Bassi

in reply to Steve F. • 9 mesi fa (Ricevuto 8 mesi fa) • •

@freci @vincevlo @dekkzz76 @nojhan @louis xulrunner died long before 2015; we had an embeddable Gecko running in offscreen mode in 2009-2010 on Moblin for netbooks, at Intel, but every time we asked Mozilla for a proper embedding API, they dithered or simply refused because “Firefox is the product”. That’s how you get WebKit everywhere, which leads to Chrome everywhere once Google decides to put their money printer behind a proper effort

@Vincent Degove @Dekkzz :emacs: @Steve F. @Jean-Shell au ʨrminal cha℔yant

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